Sportsound Watch

[Dons_1988]

I haven't listened but Collins strikes me as someone who has decent ideas in terms of his approach to fitness, nutrition etc but has none of the character/charisma/leadership skills to get people to buy into it.

It's a shame in a way but he definitely seems to have gone down the bitter route of just dismissing Scottish players as unwilling to change instead of looking at himself.

 

[bennett]

10 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I haven't listened but Collins strikes me as someone who has decent ideas in terms of his approach to fitness, nutrition etc but has none of the character/charisma/leadership skills to get people to buy into it.

It's a shame in a way but he definitely seems to have gone down the bitter route of just dismissing Scottish players as unwilling to change instead of looking at himself.

 

 

He's got a point there tbf.

[DukDukGoose]

11 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I haven't listened but Collins strikes me as someone who has decent ideas in terms of his approach to fitness, nutrition etc but has none of the character/charisma/leadership skills to get people to buy into it.

It's a shame in a way but he definitely seems to have gone down the bitter route of just dismissing Scottish players as unwilling to change instead of looking at himself.

 

Doesn't take much imagination to imagine what a team of young Scottish players were saying the second he left the room after he had shown them his 6 pack.

[Junior_Arab]

Just now, Merkland Red said:

Doesn't take much imagination to imagine what a team of young Scottish players were saying the second he left the room after he had shown them his 6 pack.

Collins doesn’t come across terribly well but some of the young players at Hibs around that time might have made a lot more of their career if they had listened to some of that advice. 

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

He's got a point there tbf.

I'm sure he does but it takes a level of character and leadership to change the culture of a club. Showing off your 6 pack to a bunch of arseholes in their early 20's isn't going to go too far.

[AndyDD]

Aye, Collins strikes me as a man with some ideas of merit but none of the character traits to take people with him. 

That being said, his personality and approach clearly worked with Van Dijk, who can't speak highly enough of him. 

It might well be the case that he was a showy arsehole at Hibs, but it's an undeniable indictment of our clubs, coaches and yes even our footballers, if they are truly so far behind in terms of training and attitude to it. 

If professional athletes really do baulk at the prospect of multiple training sessions a day and spit the dummy over being denied a bevvy session when at an overseas training camp, then that is appalling. Even if the manager trying to implement such measures is a bit of a dick. 

 

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Merkland Red said:

Kevin Thomson not happy...

 

Some dafty claims Collins couldn't lace Thomsons boots. Haha.

Why can't any of these fools write properly?!

Also, "Complaining about us getting willie". Chuckle.

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

I haven't listened but Collins strikes me as someone who has decent ideas in terms of his approach to fitness, nutrition etc but has none of the character/charisma/leadership skills to get people to buy into it.

It's a shame in a way but he definitely seems to have gone down the bitter route of just dismissing Scottish players as unwilling to change instead of looking at himself.

 

Agree with this. He's absolutely right about nutrition and fitness and was always way ahead of the vast majority in Scotland but put it across in such a shite, dickish manner than players were never going to listen. It's almost David Brent esque but being able to back it up.

3 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

Aye, Collins strikes me as a man with some ideas of merit but none of the character traits to take people with him. 

That being said, his personality and approach clearly worked with Van Dijk, who can't speak highly enough of him. 

It might well be the case that he was a showy arsehole at Hibs, but it's an undeniable indictment of our clubs, coaches and yes even our footballers, if they are truly so far behind in terms of training and attitude to it. 

If professional athletes really do baulk at the prospect of multiple training sessions a day and spit the dummy over being denied a bevvy session when at an overseas training camp, then that is appalling. Even if the manager trying to implement such measures is a bit of a dick. 

 

Our players are way behind in terms of fitness and training. Just look at the physiques of many players here when they pull off their top to celebrate or even just at the end of the game.

At the risk of going all 'Yer da', I don't think enough players commit themselves enough to things like nutrition and fitness. 

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Agree with this. He's absolutely right about nutrition and fitness and was always way ahead of the vast majority in Scotland but put it across in such a shite, dickish manner than players were never going to listen. It's almost David Brent esque but being able to back it up.

Our players are way behind in terms of fitness and training. Just look at the physiques of many players here when they pull off their top to celebrate or even just at the end of the game.

At the risk of going all 'Yer da', I don't think enough players commit themselves enough to things like nutrition and fitness. 

I'm always quite amazed when I hear stories of what footballers have in their diets.

Remember Ryan Fraser doing an interview saying it was only when he got to Bournemouth he realised that a Domino's every weekend probably wasn't a great idea. Surely we're not that far behind here? You don't need to be an athlete to know this, never mind having dedicated sports scientists.

I'm not one to claim they should never, ever drink or whatever but just seems unbelievable that they take such a blase approach to nutrition as professional athletes.

[welshbairn]

Some odd comments there..

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by welshbairn

[Fratelli]

Agree with what others have said, Collins is right in most of what he says, but his David Brent like manner will always make him a figure of ridicule instead of folk taking him seriously. In Scotland we tend to be a bit wary of folk who are clearly having themselves and he's quite a good example. He always felt he truly belonged at the top level and i can't imagine he ever experienced imposter syndrome, you can see it at the 98 World Cup before the Brazil game where half of the team look like competition winners terrified for their lives while he winks at the camera. He's a bit of a tit but you can't really argue with most of what he's saying. 

Listening to the Open Goal interviews in the last few years, the same culture seems to still exist where folk who do extra work/commit themselves fully are seen as being busy c***s, and folk who aren't mad for a night out are seen as being a bit dull. Although at the same time i think folk like Collins, Delia, Le Guen etc thinking they can change an entire culture overnight are also a bit daft, always going to alienate players that way.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Fratelli

[AndyDD]

19 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

 

Our players are way behind in terms of fitness and training. Just look at the physiques of many players here when they pull off their top to celebrate or even just at the end of the game.

At the risk of going all 'Yer da', I don't think enough players commit themselves enough to things like nutrition and fitness. 

Aye, there will be exceptions of course but in a general sense there does appear to be (or at least was?) a lack of proper diligence from a lot of our players. 

That a manager wanting multiple training sessions, wanting to target peak athleticism and wanting to prevent the indulgence of players, was faced with any opposition to those ideas at all, never mind strong opposition, speaks for itself. I'm not sure that this is necessarily as bad now as it was then, but Mcginn and others are still speaking in interviews about how much more seriously that aspect of the game is taken in England than up here and I struggle to find any justification for it. 

Not even like every club is managed by veteran coaches and dinosaurs up here, either. A lot of young managers, many of whom have experience in other football environments as players and coaches. 

[capt_oats]

30 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I'm always quite amazed when I hear stories of what footballers have in their diets.

Remember Ryan Fraser doing an interview saying it was only when he got to Bournemouth he realised that a Domino's every weekend probably wasn't a great idea. Surely we're not that far behind here? You don't need to be an athlete to know this, never mind having dedicated sports scientists.

I'm not one to claim they should never, ever drink or whatever but just seems unbelievable that they take such a blase approach to nutrition as professional athletes.

I'd honestly say that the best investment Motherwell have made in recent years has been setting up the strength and conditioning department and creating a head of sports science role.

There's a demonstrable difference in the level of conditioning between say McCall's arguably more talented side of the early 10s and Robinson's current group. The fact that Robinson's been able to instil a culture of self-improvement at the club is precisely what Collins doesn't seem to be able to do. It's part of his brand but everything that comes out of the club about Allan Campbell is how he's first into the gym (he has his own key) and last out.

It's obviously down to the players themselves how much they buy into it but it's been interesting to watch the impact the sports science element has had on our Academy players - you've seen players like Campbell, Hastie, Scott and Turnbull all coming through and one of the notable aspects is the difference in physicality especially when the Dev league was on the go.

Even the physical improvement of someone like Moult was noticeable when you compare what he was like when he arrived with when he left.

Our Head of Sports Science was talking to Joel on The Terrace pod a couple of weeks ago. A lot of it is pretty dry stuff but when framed in the context of the comments from Collins it's quite interesting.

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by capt_oats

[Tannadeechee]

2 hours ago, AndyDD said:

Aye, there will be exceptions of course but in a general sense there does appear to be (or at least was?) a lack of proper diligence from a lot of our players. 

That a manager wanting multiple training sessions, wanting to target peak athleticism and wanting to prevent the indulgence of players, was faced with any opposition to those ideas at all, never mind strong opposition, speaks for itself. I'm not sure that this is necessarily as bad now as it was then, but Mcginn and others are still speaking in interviews about how much more seriously that aspect of the game is taken in England than up here and I struggle to find any justification for it. 

Not even like every club is managed by veteran coaches and dinosaurs up here, either. A lot of young managers, many of whom have experience in other football environments as players and coaches. 

Thing is it wasn't always. Remember Paul Sturrock getting the boot at Southampton because of player power.  He wanted to do some of the things he had done at other clubs he had been at, like increased training time. The players complained about him and he was gone.

Situation also brought about my favourite Strachan moment. Football Focus presenter Manish asks " was it because he wasn't a great player?" Strachan went poplectic " not a great player? World cups, European semis & final, he' s achieved more than most  of that squad will"

I digress. We do take it seriously up here BUT, there are players who don't. I think it's a society thing where folk go I can do what I like ( evidenced every day during this current situation). I remember Boyd on BBC Sportsound having a go at the Turkish training. I also think it's the same with the media here and foreign coaches where they are instantly slagged off as figures of fun and the things they say, when everyone knows what they mean. I mean if these guys could speak their language as well as these foreign coaches speak English!

I think you have to be careful though. You see comments on here all the time about how players need to "bulk up". First and foremost you need to be able to control and move the ball as close to second nature as possible and be fit and look after yourself. In England there are some players who look too bulky.

There is a balance, you don't want it like rugby, where it's so much about fitness and physique, the finesse has gone, but it's surely common sense to ignore the junk while your playing. Your a long time retired, best not make it longer than it has to be.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Tannadeechee

[Golden Gordon]

5 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

Thing is it wasn't always. Remember Paul Sturrock getting the boot at Southampton because of player power.  He wanted to do some of the rings he had done at other clubs he had been at, like increased training time. The players complained about him and he was gone.

Situation also brought about my favourite Strachan moment. Football Focus presenter Manish asks " was.it because he wasn't a great player?" Strachan went poplectic " not a great player? World cups, European semis & final, he' s achieved more than most that squad will"

I digress. We do take it seriously up here BUT, there are players who don't. I think it's a society thing where folk go I can do what I like ( evidenced every day during this current situation). I remember Boyd on BBC Sportsound having a go at the Turkish training. I also think it's the same with the media here and foreign coaches where they are instantly slagged off as figures of fun and the things they say, when everyone knows what they mean. I mean if these guys could speak their language as well as these.foreign coaches speak English!

I think you have to be careful though. You see comments on here all the time about how layers need to "bulk up". First and foremost you need to be able to control and move.the ball as.close to.second nature as possible and be fit and look after yourself. In England there are some players who look too bulky.

There is a balance, you don't want it like rugby, where it's so much about fitness and physique, the finest has gone, but it's surely common sense to ignore the junk while your playing. Your a long time.retired, best not make it longer than it has to be.

Can't argue with Collins that footballers should be ensuring that they are training and treating their bodies with respect (although I did feel like some sort new-age puritan typing that).  Combined with their ability to read a game & make the right decisions during it, it's their athleticism which enables them to make a living playing football.

It is disappointing that Scottish football is such a closed shop with regard to foreign managers & alternative philosophies.  There was even a small part of me that wanted Daniel Stendel to be successful with his rope & goggles approach to improving Hearts' defence, just because he was ridiculed in the press about trying a novel idea.

Yes, you only have to look at Adebayo Akinfenwa of Wycombe Wanderers to see the extreme end of the 'bulking up' approach. 

[Lobby Dossar]

3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I haven't listened but Collins strikes me as someone who has decent ideas in terms of his approach to fitness, nutrition etc but has none of the character/charisma/leadership skills to get people to buy into it.

It's a shame in a way but he definitely seems to have gone down the bitter route of just dismissing Scottish players as unwilling to change instead of looking at himself.

 

He’s a guy with a chip on his shoulder …… for whatever reason 

[Junior_Arab]

38 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

 

I digress. We do take it seriously up here BUT, there are players who don't. I think it's a society thing where folk go I can do what I like ( evidenced every day during this current situation). I remember Boyd on BBC Sportsound having a go at the Turkish training. I also think it's the same with the media here and foreign coaches where they are instantly slagged off as figures of fun and the things they say, when everyone knows what they mean. I mean if these guys could speak their language as well as these.foreign coaches speak English!

Did Le Guen not face a players revolt led by Barry Ferguson and Kris Boyd when he got rid of the Monster Munch vending machine at the training park??? 

[Golden Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Lobby Dossar said:

He’s a guy with a chip on his shoulder …… for whatever reason 

Can't see him getting that close to a chip, to be fair...

[Golden Gordon]

8 minutes ago, Junior_Arab said:

Did Le Guen not face a players revolt led by Barry Ferguson and Kris Boyd when he got rid of the Monster Munch vending machine at the training park??? 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/crisps-theft-robbers-armed-with-hammer-277287

Probably were the prime suspects in this incident.

[Junior Pub League]

Did they have a getaway vehicle or were they Walkers?

[SilverWolfe]

I think Scottish footballs attitude towards John Collins really highlights why we are where we are.

Reconstruction, colt teams, project brave etc etc will make no difference because the main issue is purely mental, our players have the ability but seriously lack the mental attributes to make that step up and until chairman/managers/players and fans understand that massive change is required in the set up of our clubs it will never ever change.

I personally love listening to JC and think it’s a real pity he is ridiculed as much as he is. I think he does have the character to make it happen but if no one is willing to go along with him then there’s not much he can do.

I hope he does buy a club and introduce that sort of culture. I reckon he’d prove a lot of people wrong.