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1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

"Uh hiv honestly nivvir thought eh it like that" or words to that effect - he has always believed it was in tribute to the Dutch contingent and was in no way bigoted at all, and the first time he has ever heard it being linked to bigotry was when Michael Stewart put both him and 'Doddsy' to the sword.

The tragedy is that despite it being unbelievable, I kind of believe him.  

I think his commitment to 'Show Racism the Red Card' is sincere and entirely decent.  I just think it reveals the disconnect that somehow exists when it comes to these issues.  There is some ludicrous exceptionalism about how football based sectarianism is viewed by lots of people brought up among that shite, whereby it barely registers as a problem. 

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Today was bloody awful. 

I missed the talk on the orange strips, but you would have to be concerned about the ability of someone to look after themselves if they can't see why the orange shirts were pandering to the knuckle draggers. I remember when they were released RFC said it was to honour all the Dutch players, there was a collective "aye, that'll be right" from the rest of us.

I have no idea what was happening at Rugby Park as all I could get was "this game is rubbish" & " the pitch, the pitch" from Biscuits, give it a rest please.

The inability from Miller to grasp why a goalie couldn't take his gloves off mid game and needed someone to tie his laces was mind-numbing. Add to that his inability to comprehend why a goalie would choose to punch, especially a foreign keeper, shows how out of touch he his with the modern game. Yes I'm old enough to remember when goalies always caught to ball, but the balls back then didn't swerve and dip the way the current ones do. 

Open all mics used to be decent when it started, but today was amateurish and the "professional" commentators attempts to identify players really defies belief, how anyone can mistake Laurence Shankland for Nicky Clark is beyond me.

There was other things I could mention, but it just merged into a mess that tries to be light hearted and informative, but in the end does neither. Sad thing is I bet I've missed the worst while at matches.

Micheal Stewart came across today as the only reasonable person on it, which I'm not sure if its a compliment or a damning indictment of the programs lack of quality.

 

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50 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

 

I missed the talk on the orange strips, but you would have to be concerned about the ability of someone to look after themselves if they can't see why the orange shirts were pandering to the knuckle draggers. I remember when they were released RFC said it was to honour all the Dutch players, there was a collective "aye, that'll be right" from the rest of us.

 

That's not how I recall it.

I'm sure their then chairman (McClelland ?) made some noises at the time of the first Orange kit, about having some reservations about it, but that it sold so well that commercial considerations overrode moral ones.

The Dutch connection was invoked as a justification for the support all wearing Orange at the 2000 Cup final, a game in which Dodds scored funnily enough.  I think the original suggestion was along those lines, but there's no doubt that it was embraced so enthusiastically simply due to bigotry.

Nowadays,  nobody but Dodds pretends that the Orange has anything to do with Dutch players.  People like Green were asked early on whether there were plans for an orange strip.  It's very clearly about the club's Protestant identity and Stewart was completely spot on in raising it in the context of the question about 'How could Rangers do more?'  

It says a great deal about the intelligence and ignorance of today's contributors that they really struggled to even understand that there's a link.

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3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I actually don’t mind derek Ferguson as a pundit but please tell me he didn’t claim he didn’t know the connotations of an orange strip? 

I also enjoy the inherent enthusiasm of Derek Ferguson but the contributions from him and Billy Dods literally stopped me in my tracks.

How two grown men can refuse to acknowledge the bleeding obvious left me questioning their motives.

I surmised that both, on pain of being cast out by folk that I'd not care to think about, passed on the chance to be truthful.

Truly saddening.

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1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's not how I recall it.

I'm sure their then chairman (McClelland ?) made some noises at the time of the first Orange kit, about having some reservations about it, but that it sold so well that commercial considerations overrode moral ones.

The Dutch connection was invoked as a justification for the support all wearing Orange at the 2000 Cup final, a game in which Dodds scored funnily enough.  I think the original suggestion was along those lines, but there's no doubt that it was embraced so enthusiastically simply due to bigotry.

Nowadays,  nobody but Dodds pretends that the Orange has anything to do with Dutch players.  People like Green were asked early on whether there were plans for an orange strip.  It's very clearly about the club's Protestant identity and Stewart was completely spot on in raising it in the context of the question about 'How could Rangers do more?'  

It says a great deal about the intelligence and ignorance of today's contributors that they really struggled to even understand that there's a link.

I didn't remember that, so defer to you, but I do remember the comments about its launch though it may not have been the official response, but as you say it clearly has absolutely nothing to do with that and everything to do with "staunchness".

What's even more amazing is the fact is the fact that Ranger's fans raised it at the AGM saying it was in bad taste, they dropped it for that reason then they bring it back knowing full well what it represents and why it sells. So they can do more.

Both those pundits are ex players of and grew up supporters of that club and the blinkers are well and truly on.

 

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I also enjoy the inherent enthusiasm of Derek Ferguson but the contributions from him and Billy Dods literally stopped me in my tracks.
How two grown men can refuse to acknowledge the bleeding obvious left me questioning their motives.
I surmised that both, on pain of being cast out by folk that I'd not care to think about, passed on the chance to be truthful.
Truly saddening.

Anybody who veers from the party line will inevitably endure a shit storm of abuse and hassle from the rest of Ra Peepul. That’s the reason they abjectly tried to skate round the issue.
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At the Cup Final during the season Dodds and Ferguson were referring to, We had a banner removed because it stated “Red Ultras” on it by Strathclyde’s finest. Yet the other lot were allowed “the future is bright, the future is orange” behind the goals for the whole game....reminds me of last season and the media storm because we had a banner with “mattress” in it. It’s not going away folks. The re-incarnation are worse. Living in Glasgow I can honestly say they are the most self entitled, arrogant and confrontational fans I’ve ever been in the company with - and that’s work colleagues !!

 

 

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6 hours ago, virginton said:

Derek Ferguson regaling the panel of the times when he 'used to go to Rangers games as a fan and sang certain songs... but those songs are offensive now so they've got to stop'. Erm no, they were always offensive you thick, bigoted fuckwit. Absolutely nothing has changed other than UEFA having the stones to punish them for it.

Interesting to see if the Beeb retain someone who openly admits to being a bigot.

By far the worst part of yesterday's news is the media coming out and acting like they weren't complicit in covering it up. Daily Record was full of it as well. 

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1 hour ago, G-MAN said:

At the Cup Final during the season Dodds and Ferguson were referring to, We had a banner removed because it stated “Red Ultras” on it by Strathclyde’s finest. Yet the other lot were allowed “the future is bright, the future is orange” behind the goals for the whole game....reminds me of last season and the media storm because we had a banner with “mattress” in it. It’s not going away folks. The re-incarnation are worse. Living in Glasgow I can honestly say they are the most self entitled, arrogant and confrontational fans I’ve ever been in the company with - and that’s work colleagues !!

 

 

 

That's an advert for a mobile phone company mate, they're now part of EE.

 

futures-bright-futures.jpg

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7 minutes ago, G-MAN said:

 


Don’t bite...don’t bite. I will not bite.

emoji23.pngemoji23.png

 

On what grounds was a banner removed if it only said ‘Red Ultras’? What’s the difference between that and ‘Green Brigade’ or ‘Black & White Army’ for example. Am I missing an obvious ‘other’ connotation?

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On what grounds was a banner removed if it only said ‘Red Ultras’? What’s the difference between that and ‘Green Brigade’ or ‘Black & White Army’ for example. Am I missing an obvious ‘other’ connotation?


You are forgetting it was in 2000. The Red Ultras were the first of its type in Scotland. Plod thought the term “Ultras” meant Hooligans so removed it.
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It started out quite well today condemning the inaction of the SFA/SPFL against sevco then the staunchness genes kicked in from Doddsy And Fergie fae Govan Central . Tbf Richard Gordon was playing devils advocate but you could tell his heart wasn’t in it . It takes a special kind of stupid/staunchness  not to realise the connection between orange strips and a certain order . 

I expect a statement from some order or another about the BBCs obvious bias 

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4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's not how I recall it.

I'm sure their then chairman (McClelland ?) made some noises at the time of the first Orange kit, about having some reservations about it, but that it sold so well that commercial considerations overrode moral ones.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/premiership/rangers-to-drop-their-orange-away-strip-1-623615

Spoiler

RANGERS are dropping their controversial orange away strip at the end of the season, but claim the decision has been taken on "commercial rather than political" grounds.

John McLelland, the Ibrox chairman, was forced to defend the kit at the club’s agm last month, when one shareholder suggested the choice of colour was needlessly provocative.

With the issue of sectarianism coming to the fore again in Scottish football, Rangers’ decision to pick orange has come under fresh scrutiny.

A spokesperson for the club said: "The decision to drop the shirt was a commercial decision not based on politics. We change the shirt every season with new designs to try and make it new and fresh."

While the club originally described the kit as "tangerine" when they launched it last April, McLelland admitted at the agm that it was orange. The shirts have been hugely popular with supporters, and hundreds could be seen in the away end at Celtic Park during yesterday’s Old Firm derby.

The decision to change the kit has been welcomed by the anti-sectarian charity Nil By Mouth. A spokesperson said: "This is a step in the right direction. The orange strip has been seen by many as contradictory of the good work done by Rangers against sectarianism."

Donald Gorrie, MSP, also welcomed the decision. "I think it is a very good gesture to drop the shirt," he said. "I think it was a mistake on the part of Rangers to introduce it in the first place - I don’t think they thought through its implications.

"On the fringe of Old Firm supporters, there are people imbued with sectarian prejudices, but I believe both clubs are trying to work with their fans to bring that to an end."

Article is from 2002 and references multiple people, including those involved in the club, acknowledging the sectarian connotations. 

Billy Dodds, who played for Rangers at that time, claims hes never heard of any talk about the tops being anything other than a celebration of the Dutch players...

Hopefully Stewart brings that up next time ol' jug lugs starts defending the indefensible.

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That day was vile. The whole thing was nothing other than a bigotfest. Absolute brain dead ex player morons like Dodds in 2019 make it more infuriating. Let’s not be mistaken here. Both sides are ****. But only one of them can’t be tolerated or accepted.

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9 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The tragedy is that despite it being unbelievable, I kind of believe him.  

I think his commitment to 'Show Racism the Red Card' is sincere and entirely decent.  I just think it reveals the disconnect that somehow exists when it comes to these issues.  There is some ludicrous exceptionalism about how football based sectarianism is viewed by lots of people brought up among that shite, whereby it barely registers as a problem. 

I think this is spot on. I have good friends that support Rangers, who are sensible, clever guys when talking about most subjects. When the subject is Rangers or anything to do with Brexit and Scottish independence, they become the most blinkered, blinded people you could imagine. They become the stereotypical rangers fan. The football team they support dictates their opinion and no matter how many facts you give them, they revert to type every time. I’ve asked for their arguments against but they don’t have any, they just know that they need to hold the same opinion as the majority of Rangers fans  

I’ve grown to realise it’s not entirely their fault, and if I had been brought up in the same way that they have, then it’s conceivable that I could hold those same opinions. It’s very sad but unfortunately we live in a country full of easily swayed idiots. 

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