Sportsound Watch

[The_Kincardine]

3 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Kincardine yet again sticking to his MO trying to find clever wee loopholes to justify songs ...centred around hating catholics. 

I know you're hysterical by default but this is taking your normal pouting and flouncing drama queenery to a new level.  I haven't justified any songs.

3 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Given part A) can you at least accept that rangers actively pursue a pro-union, pro-monarchy identity?

This is entirely irrelevant.  I'm certainly not 'pro monarchy'.  As I have said on here on several occasions, you'd not design a country by starting with a monarch.  I am, though, pro Union as is most of the electorate of Scotland.  I doubt that club has any particular views on these issues.

[kingjoey]

I know that a lot of the discussion on here over the past few days has been on Dodds and Ferguson, but one of the worst apologists for the bigots is a fairly regular Friday night guest, Jim Duffy. He can’t see that “innocent” fans should be punished and that the answer is to arrest everyone that is singing the songs and, if necessary, employ more police. He has also said in the very recent past that if strict liability was brought in, rival fans would go into the other clubs stands and start the singing to get the other clubs banned.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

I know that a lot of the discussion on here over the past few days has been on Dodds and Ferguson, but one of the worst apologists for the bigots is a fairly regular Friday night guest, Jim Duffy. He can’t see that “innocent” fans should be punished and that the answer is to arrest everyone that is singing the songs and, if necessary, employ more police. He has also said in the very recent past that if strict liability was brought in, rival fans would go into the other clubs stands and start the singing to get the other clubs banned.

Yes, Jim Duffy is another complete bellend on the matter.

[IrishBhoy]

9 hours ago, pozbaird said:

I’m not offended by the Union flag. I am not offended by the Irish tricolour, or the rather colourful Brazilian or Jamaican flags. There’s a discussion going on about, amongst other things, thicko’ Derek Ferguson and daft Doddsy’s performance on Sportscene, and the orange kits are part of this discussion. Rangers released an orange away kit, and a red Puma kit with a Union flag motif. In my, and seemingly many other people’s opinion, this was no random colour choice, no random stylised background pattern, like, for example, the current Chelsea kit which features stylised roof sections of their stadium. 

Rangers, and their new incarnation, Rangers 2012 know fine what they are doing , and that is pandering to the Unionist / Loyalist element that goes with supporting those clubs. Now, I am a golfer, and when Justin Rose won Olympic gold, I treated myself to one of those natty shirts Team GB golfers wore. A smart Nike job, featuring red, white and blue colours, a Union flag motif, and a full-on Union flag on the sleeve. I wore it in a medal competition last week - so don’t fcuking tell me what I am offended by, thank you.

I bought a 2012 Olympics polo shirt made by Adidas that had a portion of the union flag on it in sky blue. The amount of people who commented that it was a ‘Rangersy’ top or some sort of show of support for the Union was unreal, I bought the top because I liked it, the connotations of the flag on it never even crossed my mind, but it’s at the fore of some others. 

[cmontheloknow]

Not being a bigot Im not massively clued up on the Orange Order's origins but by co-incidence I am reading a book about ireland just now. So the Orange Order formed in 1795 in response to a Catholic secret society called the Defenders, with members of both groups involved in a sectarian scrap just before. It has zero direct relevance to Scottish history and was no doubt brought to us by returrning Ulster Scots. The SFA could do worse than make Scottish football secular and ban any reference whatsoever to religion inside our grounds.

[Boghead ranter]

1 minute ago, cmontheloknow said:

Not being a bigot Im not massively clued up on the Orange Order's origins but by co-incidence I am reading a book about ireland just now. So the Orange Order formed in 1795 in response to a Catholic secret society called the Defenders, with members of both groups involved in a sectarian scrap just before. It has zero direct relevance to Scottish history and was no doubt brought to us by returrning Ulster Scots. The SFA could do worse than make Scottish football secular and ban any reference whatsoever to religion inside our grounds.

Bad news for Saint Johnstone and Saint Mirren.

[pozbaird]

7 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

I bought a 2012 Olympics polo shirt made by Adidas that had a portion of the union flag on it in sky blue. The amount of people who commented that it was a ‘Rangersy’ top or some sort of show of support for the Union was unreal, I bought the top because I liked it, the connotations of the flag on it never even crossed my mind, but it’s at the fore of some others. 

Sorry, my ‘Justin Rose’ golf shirt was also Adidas. I said Nike in error. I should hang it beside the Adidas Irish change kit I still have from 1994, purchased after my first visit to Dublin when the USA World Cup was on. Cracking top. The wee Irish tricolour on the sleeve can sit right next to the Union flag on the sleeve of the golf shirt, allowing me to not be offended by either.

[Ken Fitlike]

The Dodds and Ferguson input has worked splendidly. Narrative is now no longer about UEFA stepping in after most of the stadium were belting out the Billy Boys, but the minutiae of shirt colours and flags and ‘what about thame? Ping pong.....

[pozbaird]

2 minutes ago, Ken Fitlike said:

The Dodds and Ferguson input has worked splendidly. Narrative is now no longer about UEFA stepping in after most of the stadium were belting out the Billy Boys, but the minutiae of shirt colours and flags and ‘what about thame? Ping pong.....

Another way of looking at it is that the narrative has expanded beyond merely the songs, which is a good thing. To get a fair idea of why supporters of diddy teams shake our heads at the continuing antics of the cheeks in 2019, all anyone needs to do is to take a walk past the arsecheek stadiums on matchdays, to see the nature of the tat on sale by street vendors. Like the BoDs of both clubs, those tat sellers know their market too. I actually walked past a bloke at a Celtic game yelling out ‘Err the flags, hats, scarves, and Republican CDs, err the flags, hats, scarves....’ 

Cannae’ move near Ibrox for Dutch blokes selling souvenir clogs & tulips.

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

Not being a bigot Im not massively clued up on the Orange Order's origins but by co-incidence I am reading a book about ireland just now. 

Actually that probably makes you much more erudite on the subject because (a) you're not a bigot and (b) you've actually read a book about Irish history. 

The Sportsound thing was outrageous but at the very very least it was talked about and it gave some commentators the opportunity to embarass themselves. Sunlight being the best disinfectant etc. 

Even taking it at face value that the strips/union flags/songs etc are not catholic-bait* but a celebration of a particular event in Anglo-Irish protestant history, or contemporaty ulster unionism, or monarchaism, the question still remains as to why anyone in 21st century Scotland would think that political issues such as these have any relevance whatsoever to a football game. 

As Scarf says above, it's monetising hatred and ignorance. 

*which it is

 

[ZvonimirBoban]

Just listened to this back. Derek Ferguson admits “growing up as a rangers fan and singing certain songs” and that  “these songs are no longer acceptable”. 

Not only that, he can’t see the connotations an orange kit and Richard Gordon helps him out by saying it was a marketing ploy to honour the Dutch players of the past. In any other society these guys would be sacked without hesitiation. Sportsound pandering to bigots in 2019. What an utter embarrassment.

[Rugster]

Michael Stewart can at times be  self righteous and condescending but he was absolutely spot on on Saturday and at the end up Richard Gordon threw the towel in on behalf of Derek Ferguson by moving things on. At one point when Ferguson just couldn't respond to Stewart calling out his nonsense at not knowing the connotations of the orange shirts he just spluttered a bit and said "Wall that's ma opinion right, wur aww entitled tae wur ane opinions, it wuz fur ra dutch boays". 

 

[accies1874]

Michael Stewart can at times be  self righteous and condescending but he was absolutely spot on on Saturday and at the end up Richard Gordon threw the towel in on behalf of Derek Ferguson by moving things on. At one point when Ferguson just couldn't respond to Stewart calling out his nonsense at not knowing the connotations of the orange shirts he just spluttered a bit and said "Wall that's ma opinion right, wur aww entitled tae wur ane opinions, it wuz fur ra dutch boays". 
 

'Calling Cards of Morons' thread for this.

[The_Kincardine]

10 hours ago, Ken Fitlike said:

The Dodds and Ferguson input has worked splendidly. Narrative is now no longer about UEFA stepping in after most of the stadium were belting out the Billy Boys, but the minutiae of shirt colours and flags and ‘what about thame? Ping pong.....

You have to add Michael Stewart too - as he raised but.  Aside from that, you've made the point in a better way than I was trying to.

We have a problem with part of our songbook and Rangers have to do more about it - starting with suspension of season tickets, voluntary closing of sections ( a la Hearts) and sine die bannings.

Asinine discussions of which combinations of cyan, magenta, yellow and black are appropriate simply trivialises the whole debate as we can see even on this thread.

Edited August 26, 2019 by The_Kincardine

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

Asinine discussions of which combinations of cyan, magenta, yellow and black are appropriate simply trivialises the whole debate as we can see even on this thread.

Absolutely not the case.

You're very deliberately missing the point, which is that the clubs could do more than they do to disenfranchise those who wish to behave in this way.

[Monkey Tennis]

10 hours ago, pozbaird said:

Another way of looking at it is that the narrative has expanded beyond merely the songs, which is a good thing. To get a fair idea of why supporters of diddy teams shake our heads at the continuing antics of the cheeks in 2019, all anyone needs to do is to take a walk past the arsecheek stadiums on matchdays, to see the nature of the tat on sale by street vendors. Like the BoDs of both clubs, those tat sellers know their market too. I actually walked past a bloke at a Celtic game yelling out ‘Err the flags, hats, scarves, and Republican CDs, err the flags, hats, scarves....’ 

Cannae’ move near Ibrox for Dutch blokes selling souvenir clogs & tulips.

Excellent post.

[The_Kincardine]

21 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

We have a problem with part of our songbook and Rangers have to do more about it - starting with suspension of season tickets, voluntary closing of sections ( a la Hearts) and sine die bannings.

 

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You're very deliberately missing the point, which is that the clubs could do more than they do to disenfranchise those who wish to behave in this way.

What more do you suggest beyond my comments?

[Monkey Tennis]

5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

What more do you suggest beyond my comments?

Not doing things like launching Orange kits, or banning reporters for highlighting arrests for sectarian offences.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Monkey Tennis

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

Not doing things like launching Orange kits.

You have to differentiate between what is genuinely unacceptable and what simply annoys you.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You have to differentiate between what is genuinely unacceptable and what simply annoys you.

It's not a question of that at all.

Rather, you need to recognise that the genuinely unacceptable has roots.