Sportsound Watch

[Lord Snooty]

12 minutes ago, tarapoa said:

Had to switch off this evening - endless chat about fans’ behaviour and ‘strict liability’ with the smug sounding guy that used to work for the SFA on.

Made we wish it was Pat Bonner on instead.

If you had hung in there they had five minutes on Dundee's plight at the end of the 'show'. 

[Green Day]

9 hours ago, tarapoa said:

Had to switch off this evening - endless chat about fans’ behaviour and ‘strict liability’ with the smug sounding guy that used to work for the SFA on.

Made we wish it was Pat Bonner on instead.

Darryl Broadfoot - a plum

Interesting dynamic on all the "fans behaviour" stuff - the outrage shown by these ex professionals about wee laddies throwing smoke bombs and coconuts and occasionally jumping the barrier is in stark contrast to the almost zero interest in sectarian singing by Celtic and Rangers fans (usually).

It is now verging on the hilarious, they are banging on about strict liability for these incidents, but none of them (with the exception of Michael Stewart who always says it) mentions sectarianism.

MS rightly pointed out that the court dealing with the erse who confronted Taverner is one thing, but there is no solution to 4000 people singing sectarian songs.

As is the Ayr board member interviewed who said none of them would seriously vote for Strict Liability until they knew what it meant - i.e. would it mean they were personally liable as a Director?

He is absolutely right, and why would Hibs or Hearts (to mention the clubs at the centre of coconut-gate) vote for something that might hit us while the fans of the two largest clubs get away with the biggest issue week in week out?

The likes of Broadfoot, Sutherland, McCann etc are still shiting themselves about saying anything which might upset Rangers or Celtic - pathetic c***s.

[Dons_1988]

Any programme about fan behaviour or anything like that is inevitably really boring. They say the same things week after week, it's like there's a script to be read from.

Whether I agree with it or not, it's just not interesting when it's more like a political broadcast than a debate.

[wastecoatwilly]

4 hours ago, Green Day said:

but there is no solution to 4000 people singing sectarian songs.

Is this the only reason you want strict liability?

[realmadrid]

5 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Is this the only reason you want strict liability?

Its probably the reason most real fans want it.

4000, try 40000 bigots at most old firm games.

 

[realmadrid]

Asking Neil McCann last night about the mess at Dundee FC was like asking Nick Leeson to comment on the financial crash of 2008.

I was fully expecting the "I would have turned it around" quote that he normally trots out but I think even now he's realised he would not with that group of players.

[wastecoatwilly]

17 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

Its probably the reason most real fans want it.

Going by your name is that Real or real?
What % of fans are offended by inappropriate singing? 

Edited April 9, 2019 by wastecoatwilly

[BoydiesBelly]

The police are just as complicit in this whole situation.

I actually think strict liability should be brought in, but the police calling for it so vociferously is nothing more than them passing the buck. As for the Ayr director worrying that fault will arrive at their door - correct, it will and it should. If you run a bar or a club e.g. its part of your licence that you can be held personally responsible for anything that happens on the premises. Why should it be any different for football clubs? They start working with stewards and staff to give them proper training on how to spot and report suspicious behaviour that has or could lead to issues; and they then start working closely with the police with regards to how they then deal with it. If the chances of points deductions, partial stadium closures or even, god forbid, Directors having to step down are on the table just watch how quickly the clubs buck their ideas up.

As for the sectarianism issue, we need a proactive approach. The next time Rangers or Celtic supporters start spewing their guff then you have the police wade in and arrest twenty folk in a go. Their details are then passed on to the clubs involved and they are banned from all future matches. That happens week, after week, after week until it either dies off completely or becomes such an isolated incident that its easier to pick out individuals. As it stands, folk that sing these songs do it knowing there's safety in numbers and that nothing will be done - if they start seeing large groups arrested and banned for it then eventually it will start to take effect. That would be very easy to achieve as well, there's always plenty of police and stewards in and around stands so time that they actually did something rather than just stand around, occasionally film, and then whine about it on Radio Scotland later.

I won't hold my breath though. Rangers and Celtic have no real intention of tackling the problem, in fact they play up to it massively. Police and politicians are the same. It gives them an easy way to distract from their many failings - "oh don't look at those statistics look over there! There's a football fan with a smokebomb!"

[BoydiesBelly]

21 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Going by your name is that Real or real?
What % of fans are offended by inappropriate singing? 

You literally just used the word "inappropriate" to describe it FFS.

I e.g. may have ties with the Republic and be very sympathetic towards their plight. That doesn't mean however that songs glorifying the IRA or singing about the 1916 Easter rising should have any place in a Scottish football stadium. We should be trying to make attending football matches as enjoyable an experience as possible - not turning them into a place where they're taught potted history about another country. Plenty of supporters all over the world create atmosphere with reverting to the tactics employed by Rangers and Celtic fans.

[101]

7 minutes ago, BoydiesBelly said:

You literally just used the word "inappropriate" to describe it FFS.

I e.g. may have ties with the Republic and be very sympathetic towards their plight. That doesn't mean however that songs glorifying the IRA or singing about the 1916 Easter rising should have any place in a Scottish football stadium. We should be trying to make attending football matches as enjoyable an experience as possible - not turning them into a place where they're taught potted history about another country. Plenty of supporters all over the world create atmosphere with reverting to the tactics employed by Rangers and Celtic fans.

I agree wit hyou but I dont think its fair to compare Grace to the Billy Boys. Far fairer to compare Grace to the singings of Jeruslem which I dont think anyone should be prosecuted for. Genuinley does anyone know why when the billy boys start up the police dont wade in? there is a particular line in the song which is horrifc and its regularly sung. I cant speak for the songs glorifying the rebels as Celtic havent played at EEP for some years and I dont know the words.

[BoydiesBelly]

1 minute ago, Adam101 said:

I agree wit hyou but I dont think its fair to compare Grace to the Billy Boys. Far fairer to compare Grace to the singings of Jeruslem which I dont think anyone should be prosecuted for. Genuinley does anyone know why when the billy boys start up the police dont wade in? there is a particular line in the song which is horrifc and its regularly sung. I cant speak for the songs glorifying the rebels as Celtic havent played at EEP for some years and I dont know the words.

Should have made it clearer that I only used that as an example because it's songs that I actually enjoy but just don't think there's a place for at football grounds. Obviously a song that contains sectarian abuse e.g. should be punished in a far stronger way.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Is this the only reason you want strict liability?

Pretty much, yes.

Certainly the main reason for me.

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, BoydiesBelly said:

You literally just used the word "inappropriate" to describe it FFS.

I e.g. may have ties with the Republic and be very sympathetic towards their plight. That doesn't mean however that songs glorifying the IRA or singing about the 1916 Easter rising should have any place in a Scottish football stadium. We should be trying to make attending football matches as enjoyable an experience as possible - not turning them into a place where they're taught potted history about another country. Plenty of supporters all over the world create atmosphere with reverting to the tactics employed by Rangers and Celtic fans.

I don't get offended by anything sung at a football match.
Any song that has nothing to do with football is inappropriate.
Whether you feel more strongly about one song to the next one it makes no difference.

Edited April 9, 2019 by wastecoatwilly

[Monkey Tennis]

7 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I don't get offended by anything sung at a football match.
Any songs that has nothing to do with football is inappropriate.
Whether you feel more strongly about one song to the next one it makes no difference.

I don't need to feel personally offended by something in order to object to it.

[wastecoatwilly]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Pretty much, yes.

Certainly the main reason for me.

The reason I asked the question was if we are only wanting the song book changed then football has came a long way. 

[craigkillie]

Should have made it clearer that I only used that as an example because it's songs that I actually enjoy but just don't think there's a place for at football grounds. Obviously a song that contains sectarian abuse e.g. should be punished in a far stronger way.

What makes a song acceptable or not at a football ground? Paper Roses doesn't have anything to do with football either. 

 

One of the biggest and least talked about issues related to dealing with "sectarianism" is the fact that nobody has a clear definition of what is and isn't sectarian.

 

Calling someone a "f****n b*****d" or an "o****e b*****d" purely based on perceived religious beliefs clearly is, but there are a lot of songs and actions where there is a clear grey area.

 

How can strict liability for singing possibly exist without a clear idea of what is and isn't acceptable?

 

 

 

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

What makes a song acceptable or not at a football ground? Paper Roses doesn't have anything to do with football either.

One of the biggest and least talked about issues related to dealing with "sectarianism" is the fact that nobody has a clear definition of what is and isn't sectarian.

Calling someone a ****** b*****d or an *********** purely based on perceived religious beliefs clearly is, but there are a lot of songs and actions where there is a clear grey area.

How can strict liability for singing possibly exist without a clear idea of what is and isn't acceptable?

Why don't the authorities just release a list. If it's on the list, the club can't sing it. Non negotiable with no exceptions either.

About as straight forward as it gets.

[7-2]

5 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Any programme about fan behaviour or anything like that is inevitably really boring. They say the same things week after week, it's like there's a script to be read from.

Whether I agree with it or not, it's just not interesting when it's more like a political broadcast than a debate.

It is a political broadcast though. Football is too white, too male and too ladish. It must change.

[Scary Bear]

The problem with the Strict Liability argument is it’s so fucking boring that football fans lose interest very quickly.

f**k Strict Liability. Just get the police and stewards to do the jobs the club are paying them for.

[wastecoatwilly]

31 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't need to feel personally offended by something in order to object to it.

...And the reason you object to it is because there is no need for it or it's inappropriate.
For the sake of going around in circles singing songs is not offensive.
I get that in this day and age fans are fed up with sectarian singing 20 years after the good Friday agreement.

Edited April 9, 2019 by wastecoatwilly