Can Celtic go through v Legia Warsaw

[Monkey Tennis]

Every country from 16th to 51st on the UEFA coefficient list gets 1 CL place and 3 EL spots, with the only difference being the round of entry. A single season of Celtic winning the tournament wouldn't quite get us into that top 15 for an extra CL spot, but it would push us pretty close. The knock-on effects in future seasons of having more clubs seeded (and therefore probably winning) plus having Celtic enter the CL later would probably mean that we moved into that top 15 within a couple of years.

Football finances might be relative if everyone is debt free and trying to compete for trophies, but that's not necessarily the case for all Scottish clubs. The likes of Motherwell and Aberdeen have debts which extra European prize money could help pay off. Their financial situation relative to Celtic is less important than their continued survival.

So to make a real material difference to our levels of participation, we'd really need to do significantly better over a decent period.

Without wishing to be too defeatist, that is therefore a pretty distant goal and little that Celtic can realistically achieve in this campaign will take us significantly closer.

Forgive my ignorance, but was that spell when we had two CL participants due to us making the top 16 for a bit?

As for Aberdeen and Motherwell having more immediate concerns than how they compare financially to Celtic, I do recognise the point. However, Aberdeen were able to prevent Celtic winning last season's Scottish Cup. The bigger the financial gap, the less likely such outcomes are. When these things stop happening, we really will be looking at a pretty pointless spectacle in our domestic game, the one that occupies us for the bulk of each year.

[Monkey Tennis]

That's fine. The money however, I suppose it's like us have loads & loads of meal vouchers, but we can only spend the damn things at Greggs.

While the rest, outside Scottish football, can have theirs in Nandos.

Excuse the shyte analogy.

As the rest of the teams in the country we live in and watch our football in, can but dream of Greggs.

[TartanArmyBoys]

Celtic must score earlier tomorrow night to get the crowd involved. The longer it goes without a goal, the fans will become more and more frustrated.

[craigkillie]

So to make a real material difference to our levels of participation, we'd really need to do significantly better over a decent period.

Without wishing to be too defeatist, that is therefore a pretty distant goal and little that Celtic can realistically achieve in this campaign will take us significantly closer.

Forgive my ignorance, but was that spell when we had two CL participants due to us making the top 16 for a bit?

As for Aberdeen and Motherwell having more immediate concerns than how they compare financially to Celtic, I do recognise the point. However, Aberdeen were able to prevent Celtic winning last season's Scottish Cup. The bigger the financial gap, the less likely such outcomes are. When these things stop happening, we really will be looking at a pretty pointless spectacle in our domestic game, the one that occupies us for the bulk of each year.

We were in the top 15 between 2002 and 2009, peaking at 9th in 2003 (after Celtic's run to the UEFA Cup final). We then dropped to 16th in 2010 before returning to 15th for 2011 and then dropping again in 2012. That period represented our best sustained level of performance in Europe since the 1980s.

Incidentally, in 1998 when the SPL started, Scotland was 26th in the table (an all-time low). Within 2 years we jumped into the top 15, so it's not necessarily true to say that it has to be a sustained long-term improvement. Just getting every team winning at least one tie along with a decent performance from Celtic would be enough to start to propel us upwards.

[Bully Wee Villa]

This on the box anywhere?

[Bookies Love Me]

Yes the gap will still exist, but it won't be the same size.

I'm not faulting the participant. I'm just not backing them in their bid to exploit what you rightly identify as a flawed system.

I think I've shown that your final point is at least debatable.

So what's your solution?

That ALL Scottish clubs should refuse to participate until the "flawed system" is changed?

Or just that Celtic should win the league, then generously give that place up to a "more deserving" runner-up?

I hate the Champions League, I preferred the old European Cup model (at least we had a chance of winning it).

But, as with everything else in the modern game, money talks.

The big boys (and tv companies) of Europe have sewing it up to "partially" exclude the lesser nations from the final party.

All we can do is fight over the scraps.

[Monkey Tennis]

So what's your solution?

That ALL Scottish clubs should refuse to participate until the "flawed system" is changed?

Or just that Celtic should win the league, then generously give that place up to a "more deserving" runner-up?

I hate the Champions League, I preferred the old European Cup model (at least we had a chance of winning it).

But, as with everything else in the modern game, money talks.

The big boys (and tv companies) of Europe have sewing it up to "partially" exclude the lesser nations from the final party.

All we can do is fight over the scraps.

When did I suggest that I had a solution?

As you say, a return to a traditional Cup competition won't happen because the CL was specifically set up to minimise that risk of elimination for the big boys. Perhaps, finances could be better distributed to clubs from within competing nations.

This is not about my half-baked solutions though. It's about the question of whether we should support Celtic in their European endeavours, based on the contentious premise that their progress is good for Scottish football. I don't think it is.

I'm allowed to moan about cancer or the situation in Gaza, without carrying the solution around in my back pocket too.

[hoopy1967]

This on the box anywhere?

It's on Celtic TV so you'll probably get a link somewhere

[Guest]

It's on you toob

[The Grass Is Greener.]

Hopefully they pull it back tonight, doubt it though.

[vikingTON]

I hope they get absolutely destroyed, in an even more humiliating fashion than last week.

[Ray Vaughn]

Game over.

[The Grass Is Greener.]

I hope they get absolutely destroyed, in an even more humiliating fashion than last week.

It's started

Won't be long until TGFITW turn on their manager.

[acannidaeit captain]

NO !!

[Dudu Dahan pal]

[Fraser Fyvie]

[bhoy who invented weetabix]

Billy Boy Moshni

'Banned'

[Bully Wee Villa]

I must admit, I'd written them off. When they were six-one down on aggregate, and the final whistle had already blown, I made the mistake of thinking they were probably heading out.

You have to admire their magnificent fighting spirit to come back from that, snatching victory from the small intestine of defeat.