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Motherwell vs St Mirren - 09/08/14


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McGinns tackles where worse than Goodwin. He had a couple of real bad, late over the top lunges.

Boy looks a class act on the ball so no need for that.

He is a good all rounder. Great on the ball but just as good winning the ball back. The combative side to his game is just as important, otherwise he wouldn't be able to ragdoll players like Wanyama who are twice as big as him.

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McGinn played well and most of his fouls were ticky-tacky stuff that never gets a booking (the kind of tackle Lasley specialises in) but he did go in late on Fraser Kerr after a ball was cleared. Probably given the benefit of the doubt by the ref because Carswell had tried to bring him down in the midfield seconds before.

Bet all the St Mirren fans that complained about Goodwin's red are embarrassed as even Stephen Thompson could offer no defense for his stupidity.

Edited by Jim McLean's Ghost
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Clear yellow card offences, dont know how anyone could argue against them tbh

It's a weird one - as the 'Well fans that sit in a part of the East Stand (and I guess the equivalent bit of the main stand) saw what happened clearly (as did the Linesman) - but it was a mystery to everyone else - and to be fair, no-one is arguing about it now that the TV highlights showed it clearly.

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Tell me that last time Lasley was sent off? I'll give you a clue, it was three seasons ago.

That's partly my point.

Lasley either does it better than Jim and/or gets punished less often for doing the same things.

There were numerous occasions yesterday where he could have been penalised and wasn't.

Both Goodwin's yellows can easily be justified.

However in that same game Sutton did a tackle worse than Jim's first booking, and Lasley and McGinn should both have had yellows too if Murray was being consistent.

After watching Sportscene, just checked the Sporting Life match centre for the Dundee v Killie game - and noticed McPake DIDN'T get booked for the foul that led to Killie's goal.

That was worse than the one Goodwin got a straight red (later rescinded) for against Hibs last season, and at least as bad as the first yellow yesterday.

Nobody is saying Jim's an angel, but he's now in an impossible position.

I said it several times last season, but having been sent of an hour in to this season, I really don't see how he can continue his playing career in Scotland.

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McGinn does love a tackle, he's a right hard wee player in the middle of the park. That side of his game is normally over looked because of how good he is technically, you rarely see young players who are so good with the ball and like getting stuck in aswell.

Goodwin certainly deserved to be sent off. I hope young Declan Hughes gets a start on Wednesday in Goody's stead, I think he could be a more than able replacement.

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That's partly my point.

Lasley either does it better than Jim and/or gets punished less often for doing the same things.

There were numerous occasions yesterday where he could have been penalised and wasn't.

Both Goodwin's yellows can easily be justified.

However in that same game Sutton did a tackle worse than Jim's first booking, and Lasley and McGinn should both have had yellows too if Murray was being consistent.

After watching Sportscene, just checked the Sporting Life match centre for the Dundee v Killie game - and noticed McPake DIDN'T get booked for the foul that led to Killie's goal.

That was worse than the one Goodwin got a straight red (later rescinded) for against Hibs last season, and at least as bad as the first yellow yesterday.

Nobody is saying Jim's an angel, but he's now in an impossible position.

I said it several times last season, but having been sent of an hour in to this season, I really don't see how he can continue his playing career in Scotland.

Jim Goodwin is not in an impossible position. Don't try a snide forearm into an opponent's neck when you're on a yellow card, don't lunge into challenges in nothing areas of the field (Hibs), don't have a snide wallop on someone's ear (Dundee Utd), and cut out stupid fcuking hand-balls in our penalty area.

We can sit here all day and say Lasley does this or that, or Lee McCulloch does this or that, or McGinn could have been booked, or, or, or.

Goodwin has sometimes been hard done by, but by Christ, he isn't helping himself. He was our captain, he's been promoted to first team coach - and he's becoming a liability.

Tommy Craig needs to tell him to get a fcuking hold of himself and cut out the needless shite. Stop giving officials the opportunity. I'd drop him for five or six games if I were TC. I watched Hearts get hammered into the Sevco today. Maybe five or six Hearts boys got yellow carded, but I never felt any of them were walking a tightrope or were in danger of being sent off. Goodwin gets his inevitable yellow card and immediately you want him hooked before St Mirren go down to ten.

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He was our captain, he's been promoted to first team coach - and he's becoming a liability.

Tommy Craig needs to tell him to get a fcuking hold of himself and cut out the needless shite. Stop giving officials the opportunity. I'd drop him for five or six games if I were TC.

That's exactly what I'd do. The first step though is for Tom Craig to recognise and accept what Goodwin did. He is no use whatever to St Mirren sitting in the stands whilst his colleagues are battling it out on the pitch for points. In their hour of need where will he be - not even on the pitch.

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I will defend Goodwin most the time. As I've said on here before, the overall number of yellow cards (almost one in two) he picks up is not an issue for me, because as a team we don't pick up very many. Every team gets a certain number, it's just that most of ours go to Jim.

So, generally speaking, I don't buy this 'liability' bollocks, because he makes the tackles that need to be made, disrupts the play, commits niggly fouls if necessary. Fair enough - every team needs one.

However, he's clearly let everyone down on Saturday. As we can all see, there was no need to do that to Sutton. If he got booked for leading with his arms while actually trying to win the fucking ball, even that would be vaguely acceptable in my eyes. It's part of the game, sometimes you get booked, sometimes you don't. Leading with the arms is bad (m'kay?) but at least you could describe it as a 'footballing incident'.

But what he did on Saturday is not a footballing incident. It's shitty. Luckily, he barely made contact, which is why Sutton didn't even notice it. We defend Goodwin when Thomson dives and gets him sent off, or when Derek Adams whines like a little bitch yet again.

This was basically indefensible.

Ah well, as Lex said, we have a (hopefully) ready-made, if totally untried at this level, replacement in Declan Hughes, unless we can bring that lad in from Man City. Either way, we have cover for Jim that we didn't before.

We have to hope Hughes (or whoever) rises to the challenge so that we can become less reliant on Goodwin this season.

Edited by Coventry Saint
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Posts from Standfree on this thread before Aberdeen got humped at home to Dundee United:

Why on earth are people saying St Mirren will win this? They are one of the worst teams in the league.

In what way have St Mirren strengthened? Every single signing has been described as "back up" by lex.

Tee hee

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Posts from Standfree on this thread before Aberdeen got humped at home to Dundee United, continued:

StandFree03, on 09 Aug 2014 - 16:56, said:

Another season, same old Maureens. So much for all the "good feeling" and "strengthened" pish.

Goodwin

StandFree03, on 09 Aug 2014 - 17:47, said:

You were beaten by a bunch of kids and you had one first pick missing, Aberdeen or United would have destroyed you.

Long season ahead for the Maureens.

StandFree03, on 09 Aug 2014 - 19:13, said:

You must have missed our three wins in European competition already this season. Not sure what McInnes being a *** has to do with anything either. Guys a legend.

As for made up hype, what are you talking about? We've rightfully had plaudits for winning silverware and qualifying for Europe.

StandFree03, on 10 Aug 2014 - 00:50, said:

You'd also be the first club to finish in the top six with zero points. Quite an achievement.

StandFree03, on 10 Aug 2014 - 11:13, said:

Of course it does. "Play like that this season and we will be pushing for top six". Failing to score, passing up chances, having experienced players sent off and losing the match.....going to be difficult getting to the top six with zero points tbh. Play like that every week and you'll be relegated, hopefully.

Posts from Standfree on this thread after Aberdeen got humped at home to Dundee United:

tumbleweed03.gif

He really is a needy little attention seeker. Except when his Famous team's been pumped.

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Think some of the saints fans need to stop the blinkered approach when it comes to Goodwin.

At half time I thought it was probably the best idea to take him off before he gets sent off - was just waiting for it to happen.

I was like everyone else in the saints end and had no clue why he was sent off but after watching it on TV you can't defend it. He's a liability and lets his team mates down time after time.

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Think some of the saints fans need to stop the blinkered approach when it comes to Goodwin.

At half time I thought it was probably the best idea to take him off before he gets sent off - was just waiting for it to happen.

I was like everyone else in the saints end and had no clue why he was sent off but after watching it on TV you can't defend it. He's a liability and lets his team mates down time after time.

In fairness, since the footage emerged pretty much every Saints fan has been slating him.

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I said it several times last season, but having been sent of an hour in to this season, I really don't see how he can continue his playing career in Scotland.

Here's a wacky idea. He could stop deliberately hitting opponents off the ball. I know, I know, stupid concept!

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Good to see big Fra getting some mentions on the thread. A very decent and solid performance from him on Saturday. It's mental what can happen when you play a centre half at centre half and not on the right wing.

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Every team needs a Goodwin type player, its only any good though if they stay on the pitch. To be honest I don't really get the comparison with Lasley, it seems other clubs fans seem to think he is that kind of player. Its one thing to like a tackle, win the ball etc. Goodwin however overstepped the mark yet again on Saturday with a elbow/forearm smash. St Mirren look like they have a good team with pace throughout the team and a few players who look decent. Looks like they will have a good season, if they can play like that every week.

Motherwell really need 2 or 3 players quick. Its worrying that Ainsworth didn't look capable of running the length of himself halfway though the second half. Reid didn't look fit and Sutton was woeful. McCall still doesn't seem keen to use subs when the team are obviously crying out for changes. Overall a good 3 points from a less than brilliant performance against a decent team.

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agree with great analysis. But did he not throw a full body ouch against a Well player 2 years ago?

Yeah, he's certainly got previous. I don't think you'll find many (honest) Saints fans protesting that he doesn't deserve the majority of the cards he gets. It's just his game.

Sadly, it's the occasional malicious stuff that fucks us over and has earned him the reputation he's got. In his defence, he can take it as well and never rolls around or looks to get others sent off and this gets overlooked because he's the big baddie.

I still like him. I dunno, I just like basket case defensive midfielders when they're playing for your side. Obviously when they're not, you love to boo them. It's an entertainment business and he gives opposition fans someone to vent at for 90(ish) mins.

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Its worrying that Ainsworth didn't look capable of running the length of himself halfway though the second half. Reid didn't look fit and Sutton was woeful. McCall still doesn't seem keen to use subs when the team are obviously crying out for changes. Overall a good 3 points from a less than brilliant performance against a decent team.

We had 3 or 4 1st teamers missing on Saturday plus another 3 who started that had not trained for 2 weeks and Reid was one of them. We were below par, but given the above issues not surprising. Plus we have at least 2 to come in on loan that have the potential to come into the 1st team.

We will be okay, apart from our regular drubbing from the Arabs on Wednesday night. If we keep it down to 3 I will be relieved and somewhat surprised.

Goodwin is Goodwin. Occasionally he lets his enthusiasm get the better of him. Take that away and you probably don't have the same player...

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