SodjesSixteenIncher Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Agreed, I'd rather have an articulate No voter putting forward a case than a bunch of fannies pre-gloating, pretending to support a different side than they actually do or blasting out with WATP pish. I pretty much disagree with most of that post and starting a thread to express one viewpoint is a bit dodgy behaviour. Even then, by actually stating his reasons for voting No, he's done more than all the regular No posters combined in stimulating a decent debate. A few posts in and already by default the best No poster on here. Just let that sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Never heard of populism dude? They'll cosy up to UKIP and propose a referendum because that is a vote winner, then when the referendum itself happens they'll tell people how they really feel What? Cosy up? Allready promised by the tories remember? Question allready been set. IN - OUT? We also know its not what they want , so how would that be telling us something different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Well, I'm at least happier to listen to this guy than I am trolls like Mr Bairn and H_B. I think the No side needs more folk on here who aren't looking to just deliberately be arseholes. Your problem there, mate, is that by definition people who wish to deny a group of people (any group of people) the chance of a say in their own destiny are, unfortunately, arseholes. Sometimes well-read, sometimes persuasive. But if they believe any part of the UK is better funneling all the effort of its people towards making London somehow "important", and neglecting the people who actually make society work, they're plain wrong. Large swathes of Yorkshire haven't recovered from the Strike in 84, but we're all supposed to think that the way forward is wrecking large parts of the country in order to shorten the train time from London to Brum by 20 minutes? Seriously, who wouldn't want to break free of these fucking morons? If you're talking about trolls. leave it at that. I replied to the second portion of your post, as most would have realised. As you would have realised, was your head not up your own arse, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half The World Away Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 A few posts in and already by default the best No poster on here. Just let that sink in. Ad Lib, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half The World Away Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The OP is a shower of shite and I frankly can't be arsed debating nonsense which has been debunked countless times. Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 OP - I am not quite sure how to take you. If you are genuine, do yourself a favour and go and find the answers to your questions. They are out their. Or if u can't be arsed and you are on a troll patrol then bolt ya nugget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kejan Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I enjoyed the post (I'm a yes voter). There's not a hope in hell that the lad is a hard no. I bet that some yes voters who are not politcally interested are asked these questions many a time by poential yes voters, by saying it'll be alright on the night/it's a bluff does not work with certain yes voters who are geniunely concerned about their pension, mortgage, job etc. Yet we contiune to slag them off or tel them the answers are out there is often the reply. Are we really going to lose it by saying that? I hope to f**k no. It's time to print out a (in the voice of Alan Brazil) greatest respect ''Dummies guide to Scottish Independence''. Or at least answers these questions. Most undecideds want to vote yes. Of course they do. Why else would they be undecided, but if they are told ''Ah, f**k it'' - a few will, but many won't. If Yes lose this referendum its because we failed to win over the soft no/undecided like GalaKev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I enjoyed the post (I'm a yes voter). There's not a hope in hell that the lad is a hard no. I bet that some yes voters who are not politcally interested are asked these questions many a time by poential yes voters, by saying it'll be alright on the night/it's a bluff does not work with certain yes voters who are geniunely concerned about their pension, mortgage, job etc. Yet we contiune to slag them off or tel them the answers are out there is often the reply. Are we really going to lose it by saying that? I hope to f**k no. It's time to print out a (in the voice of Alan Brazil) greatest respect ''Dummies guide to Scottish Independence''. Or at least answers these questions. Most undecideds want to vote yes. Of course they do. Why else would they be undecided, but if they are told ''Ah, f**k it'' - a few will, but many won't. If Yes lose this referendum its because we failed to win over the soft no/undecided like GalaKev. Very well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I enjoyed the post (I'm a yes voter). There's not a hope in hell that the lad is a hard no. I bet that some yes voters who are not politcally interested are asked these questions many a time by poential yes voters, by saying it'll be alright on the night/it's a bluff does not work with certain yes voters who are geniunely concerned about their pension, mortgage, job etc. Yet we contiune to slag them off or tel them the answers are out there is often the reply. Are we really going to lose it by saying that? I hope to f**k no. It's time to print out a (in the voice of Alan Brazil) greatest respect ''Dummies guide to Scottish Independence''. Or at least answers these questions. Most undecideds want to vote yes. Of course they do. Why else would they be undecided, but if they are told ''Ah, f**k it'' - a few will, but many won't. If Yes lose this referendum its because we failed to win over the soft no/undecided like GalaKev. I agree with the general sentiment of your post. The answers to the OP's queries are available from multiple sources. If the OP is genuine they will take a look themself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 No. But let me explain. I am not against the idea off full independence, but I find the idea that Yes campaign is all made up of this may happen is a step too far. Don't get me wrong, I know there will always be a certain uncertainty about going it alone. However the Yes campaign has not yet, given me solid assurances that x,y and z will happen. Take Sterling for instance, the UK has said that Scotland will not be involved in sterling if it goes alone (at least in momentary policies). The yes statement on that, the UK government will back down. Yes it may happen, but what happens if they don't. I think the Yes campaign should have said: OK we don't think it will be an issue, but if it does we will do..... The EU, what happens if Scotland don't get in as an existing member. I find this disappointing again with the Yes campaign that there is no plan as it will not happen according to Mr Salmond. But if it does? To join the EU now, you must take the Euro, join the Schengen Agreement, to never have a veto again. How will Scots take to having this pushed onto us? No response from the Yes campaign about plans if it does not go to plan. How would it effect our relationship with our major trading partner, rUK? Nothing changes according to yes, but it will. Tax raising and rates, where is any idea, what tax rates are presumed. For both business and personal? I can't operate my business without a plan for cash, so how can the white paper contain such a small amount of space on it. Not being funny but finance is the biggest part of any country. Defence, albeit this is a personal point of view. I would prefer to stay within the limits of UK as a partner in protection of ours and rUK as a combined force. However I appreciate that it may cost us, to do that. I have seen on here that anyone who questions yes, is taken as unpatriotic or thick. But these are fundamentals, even before we cross the t's and dot the i's. However, if something happens big in the next month, I may change my mind. But in all honesty I can't see it happening. I really think Scotland has missed a big opportunity, by going into this with only a pie in a sky idea. With no backbone to detail. Hi Kev. First off, it's refreshing to have a No voter on here's who's willing to debate and talk about things, so please feel free to stick around. Regarding the £, a Government minister who would be involved in negotiations with an iScotland told the Guardian "Of course there would be a currency union". Anyone who isn't trying to troll could see there is no reason why we would not keep the £. Again, only those looking to troll would suggest there would be any issue in becoming an EU member state, pretty much immediately. Scotland has been in the EU for 40 years, it's clearly in the interest of all member states. A senior EU member told Scotland on Sunday that an iScotland's application would be treated as a "special case" as we're already signed up to core requirements such as gender equality and workers' rights. On tax rates, to quote the Scottish Government: " On independence, Scotland will inherit the tax system and the prevailing UK rates and thresholds for all taxes. Decisions on specific taxes - including tax rates, allowances and credits - will be made by the Parliament and Government of an independent Scotland. For the first time ever there will be a guarantee that taxes will be set by a government that has the support of the people of Scotland. Independence will provide the Scottish Government and Parliament with the powers to set tax rates and thresholds which are right for Scotland, allowing Scottish Ministers to develop policies that will deliver sustainable economic growth and a fair society." Seems fair enough to me. Yes there are some aspects of independence that we can't say for definite what will specifically happen, but you could also level that at Westminster. There are also a whole host of other reasons for independence. I'll post this, for a third time, as it rings true to me on so many levels: "“For anyone planning to vote No in September, you have to be completely certain, beyond any doubt, that you are comfortable with the direction the UK is headed. You have to accept that the wider UK political landscape is being shaped by the far right, and that the mainstream parties (ostensibly the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats) are being inexorably pulled ever rightwards in the scramble for votes. You have to be comfortable with the marginalisation and victimisation of the poor, with the dismantling of the Welfare State, the widening of wealth inequality between rich and poor, and the continuing erosion of workers rights. You have to accept that nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers are more important to you than education, healthcare and welfare for the elderly and vulnerable in society. You have to accept that, even if you do care about these things, your vote at Westminster will make no difference to the outcome. If you accept all these things unquestioningly; if you can reconcile your personal politics with what awaits a No vote; if you can consider all of these issues and conclude that a Westminster government can deliver the kind of society you believe in; then by all means vote No. But if you sleepwalk into this referendum, without making any effort to consider the case for Yes; if you squander this incredible opportunity to transform our politics, reclaim democracy, and build a society we can once again be proud of; then I can only hope that, when the full calamity of your decision is revealed to you, you can come to terms with your choice.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I enjoyed the post (I'm a yes voter). There's not a hope in hell that the lad is a hard no. I bet that some yes voters who are not politcally interested are asked these questions many a time by poential yes voters, by saying it'll be alright on the night/it's a bluff does not work with certain yes voters who are geniunely concerned about their pension, mortgage, job etc. Yet we contiune to slag them off or tel them the answers are out there is often the reply. Are we really going to lose it by saying that? I hope to f**k no. It's time to print out a (in the voice of Alan Brazil) greatest respect ''Dummies guide to Scottish Independence''. Or at least answers these questions. Most undecideds want to vote yes. Of course they do. Why else would they be undecided, but if they are told ''Ah, f**k it'' - a few will, but many won't. If Yes lose this referendum its because we failed to win over the soft no/undecided like GalaKev. I agree. Op has been given a bit of a hard time but he does seem genuine to me even if he has swallowed up a lot of the scaremongering from RUK.I was thinking we could start a thread of things both sides agree on e.g ● we will prob get into Europe no bother but some Unionists believe it could take longer than 18 months. Yes voters think it will be quicker. Scotland will not be treated as a new country ● Currency union will be part of negotiations, not rejected out of hand. Some consider Trident to be a part of these negotiations however most feel that this is something we won't budge on. We won't be paying for the weapons in any case. If anyone disagrees they can put forward a case and the op can be amended. It can then be added to whenever agreement is reached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Did anyone notice mr bairn posting as his alias ( #14 on this thread ) but forgeting to sign in as his alias? Who could it be? Was calling someone scrappy doo on another thread too. Probably just craving attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18May1991 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Credit to the OP for detailing some of the concerns of the 'no' voters in an articulate manner. Perhaps others, like myself, have avoided doing so previously because of the mouth frothing responses you get from some of the more vocal 'yes' voters. Don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid of being laughed at or having the majority disagree with my views, but I just can't be bothered reading the usual 'the answers are in the white paper' or 'are out there if you look for them' type responses. Some of the 'no' voters are half-wits and trolls. Many of the 'yes' voters likewise, appearing to me as simply anti-English and a bit racist which is a shame really as it does a terrible disservice to those who are coherent and passionate about Scotland gaining independence. Otherwise, Kejan nailed it, a 'dummies' guide would be a good idea for the Yes campaign. Might help their cause with some of the undecided voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Some of the 'no' voters are half-wits and trolls. Many of the 'yes' voters likewise, appearing to me as simply anti-English and a bit racist which is a shame really as it does a terrible disservice to those who are coherent and passionate about Scotland gaining independence. some no voters are trolls 'Many' yes voters are racists. Sweeping generalisations and just utter pish. Not the best way to enter a debate tbh. Or just another no voter troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18May1991 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Sigh. Idiot. Pretty much sums up my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Sigh. Idiot. Pretty much sums up my point. Your point that yes voters are racists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18May1991 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 My point about having previously avoided entering the 'debate'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The guy has a point, not all yes voters are racist but there are A LOT of ethnic nationalists on this site. It paints me to say it because I genuinely like the guy, but Lichtie is a vile ethnonat as Jamaldo and all of the accent fascists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 My point about having previously avoided entering the 'debate'. Ok, feel free to make a coherent point and I will welcome you to the debate as I have done with the OP not 3 posts ago. Otherwise keep your nonsensical assertions to yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The guy has a point, not all yes voters are racist but there are A LOT of ethnic nationalists on this site. It paints me to say it because I genuinely like the guy, but Lichtie is a vile ethnonat as Jamaldo and all of the accent fascists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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