sjc Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'd disagree actually, just because someone wears a pair of joggies doesn't make them a Ned, just because someone doesn't speak eloquently doesn't make them a Ned, you can't base a stop search on that. Plenty of decent folks, say someone going to play fives, out a run,or just having a day off etc might walk about in joggies, same can be said for the way people talk etc the west of Scotland has it's nuances. All of which I did on occasion when I lived in Glasgow.......even though I never ever got searched I honestly don't think it would bother me as it would show the Police were actively tackling the problem. but if every person that bemoans the Police stopping and searching someone (wrongly/albeit finding nothing) they then by the same context can't complaint when some Ned pulls a knife on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I have no idea what policing in England is like, it's very very different to Scotland. Diddies doing joined-up thinking again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I think the public sometimes want the police to operate in circumstances which are impossible i.e they want an immediate response regardless of what's going on and sometimes don't like to be told that their Facebook report isn't going to illicit a blue light response. It's very difficult to understand crime and who it affects etc because in all honesty it doesn't discriminate. I understand the point you are making but there does have to be a balance. Often in forums like this you only hear one side of the argument, which is understandable, I do get why people may feel aggrieved at being searched, however and probably not in every case people telling these anecdotes might forget to divulge wee things which change the dynamic altogether (ie you can write it down here saying oh I was walking with my pals all being innocent,but it could be your pal is a drug dealer or someone in his house is, or it could be as simple as you absolutely reeked of hash and the cops could smell it as they passed? It's a bit like when people smoke cigarettes they don't notice the smell themselves after a while) anyway you'll never please everyone and I'm sure there are occasions when the cops get it wrong, but I'm also sure that there is significant pressure to be searching only the right people. A lot of the posts on here strike me with similarities to NIMBYism.........I don't mind you stopping and searching dodgy cnuts but hell mend you if you stop and search me one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Seems fair enough to me. Act like scum, get treated as scum f**k off. The same people that complain about getting stopped and searched by the Police would be the first people to go running to them if they got chibbed! I've never been stopped and searched even when in my youth I did do a bit of recreational........guess I'm not a dodgy looking cnut! A truly ridiculous post. Suggesting that someone who complains about police stop and search practices should refuse to lodge a complaint to the police if they are a victim of knife crime? Or are you suggesting that people who don't complain about police stop and search practices don't report knife crime? Either way, a truly baffling and profoundly stupid post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I've been stop and searched numerous times in my youth, the most ridiculous of which was when myself and two others were walking along the road one day and the cops pulled over, got out, searched us and demanded to know where we'd been, so we said "just walking along this road" (which was the truth, we had just been walking along the road, and the cops knew that because they were driving along that road when they stopped us) and then we asked why they were searching us, their answer was "because we had a report about 3 people walking along this road". Evidently it is suspicious and borderline criminal to walk along Dumbarton Road, which must be extremely inconvenient as it's possibly one of the longest residential and commercial streets in Scotland. I do think stop and search powers are draconian and an infringement of civil liberties. It's an absurd practice and barely justifiable, hence why Police Scotland are forever trying to trot out media reports about just how many drugs, weapons etc they have seized through stop and search, to keep the media and the halfwits onside and attempt to justify a thoroughly demeaning and aggressive practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 f**k off. A truly ridiculous post. Suggesting that someone who complains about police stop and search practices should refuse to lodge a complaint to the police if they are a victim of knife crime? Or are you suggesting that people who don't complain about police stop and search practices don't report knife crime? Either way, a truly baffling and profoundly stupid post. No. The point I was making was if you want knives off the street then occasionally being stopped and searched is something you have to put up with.........or are the Police supposed to have some form of clairvoyant powers for predicting who's carry them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The same people that complain about getting stopped and searched by the Police would be the first people to go running to them if they got chibbed! I've never been stopped and searched even when in my youth I did do a bit of recreational........guess I'm not a dodgy looking cnut! I wouldn't go running to the police. I'm fucking NAILS mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 No. The point I was making was if you want knives off the street then occasionally being stopped and searched is something you have to put up with.........or are the Police supposed to have some form of clairvoyant powers for predicting who's carry them? Well why not say that then, rather than making such a stupid post? As for wanting knives off the street, stop and searching isn't going to remove a particularly significant number, after all, everyone in the UK has a kitchen full of knives and you can buy bladed implements anywhere, the only thing that will reduce knife crime is tougher sentences for those who carry out knife crimes. Stop and searching will only remove a very minor number of knives from circulation, it's only the punishment for knife crime that will have any impact there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Probably when you stop carrying drugs around with you and acting suspicious. Sigh. Seems fair enough to me. Act like scum, get treated as scum Gd 1, m8. I always find this statistic totally mental whenever I hear it. Considering I've never been searched and off the top of my head I can't ever remember hearing of anyone I know being searched, presumably that means there are some folk or some areas that are getting searched all the time. It seems to me that stop and search is the type of thing you need for some cases but there is surely no way there are 400,000 instances of Scottish people acting suspiciously in the vicinity of a police officer in a year, or at least suspiciously enough to warrant a search. That's exactly my feeling. Looking suspicious isn't a crime, it's also if you'll forgive the pun a cop out for the police to use that as an excuse to stop law abiding citizens Again, this is my feeling. Not gonna comment on anecdotes here,but one thing I'd say is The Lord advocates guide lines on stop searching clearly sets out what is an acceptable reason, can't comment on cases given here because I wasn't there, I consider stop search to be a very very big invasion of someone's privacy and for that reason I'll only do it if I have good reason. Stop searching in Scotland though accounts for a number of things, stolen property, weapons, alcohol, drugs amongst others, whereas I'm not sure the American figures count for all of those, for that reason I'd take an educated guess that this is why the figure is higher. Like any profession people have bad and good experiences and their own values etc can skew why they think they are hard done to etc. As for the original point about 'an easy £75' that's not the case, police don't get the revenue from fiscal fines and for any incidence of someone being caught in possession of drugs the same paperwork as an assault etc has to be done so that's wrong from the start. Cheers for the reply. Is "acting suspiciously" an acceptable reason to search someone? Are there any guidelines as to what is deemed as suspicious behaviour? I wouldn't regard filling out a few forms as hard work, it's easy money regardless of who gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 If I got chibbed, I'd be phoning an ambulance rather than the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The same people that complain about getting stopped and searched by the Police would be the first people to go running to them if they got chibbed! It's a crime not to report a crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 If I got chibbed, I'd be phoning an ambulance rather than the police. If I got chibbed I'd be phoning an ambulance... for my attacker! I've been stopped and searched twice. Both times by the Nurnberg Polis in the space of five minutes. Fucking Nazis But if you want to be able to walk around with drugs on your person and no-one ever searching you try moving to London and being white. Polis are too busy stopping every second mixed race kid to bother with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Well why not say that then, rather than making such a stupid post? As for wanting knives off the street, stop and searching isn't going to remove a particularly significant number, after all, everyone in the UK has a kitchen full of knives and you can buy bladed implements anywhere, the only thing that will reduce knife crime is tougher sentences for those who carry out knife crimes. Stop and searching will only remove a very minor number of knives from circulation, it's only the punishment for knife crime that will have any impact there. I don't disagree but if the Police aren't allowed the powers to stop & search then they are missing a huge opportunity to PREVENT a knife crime from happening however the miniscule the numbers may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I really don't get all the hate towards the Police........the times I crossed paths with them whilst growing up was down to my own stupidity 9 times out of ten. What is everyone saying here......that they want them to have the powers to stop and search people.....but bad guys only? Please enlighten us how they are supposed to differentiate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 If I got chibbed I'd be phoning an ambulance... for my attacker! I've been stopped and searched twice. Both times by the Nurnberg Polis in the space of five minutes. Fucking Nazis But if you want to be able to walk around with drugs on your person and no-one ever searching you try moving to London and being white. Polis are too busy stopping every second mixed race kid to bother with us Not when they have the dogs with them you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm not saying that, in fact, I'm against stop and search completely. Whether you look suspicious or not, I feel that such an invasion of privacy and infringement of civil liberties is too much. I have read the figures about numbers of crimes prevented by taking knives and drugs off the streets via stop and search, but if someone is that determined to carry a knife or drugs they will just go straight out to buy more of each after the seizure so the figures are essentially meaningless and the civil liberties issue means more to me than trumped up figures. Let's also not forget that not all knives are illegal to carry in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I had the odd run in with the police in my younger years, often resulting in me speaking out when I should be shutting up. I would never tell them where I'd been, where I was going and the likes. My dad was in the police for 25 years and told me to tell them nothing. Name, address etc then yes. Where you're going, what you've had for your tea etc has f**k all to do with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm not saying that, in fact, I'm against stop and search completely. Whether you look suspicious or not, I feel that such an invasion of privacy and infringement of civil liberties is too much. I have read the figures about numbers of crimes prevented by taking knives and drugs off the streets via stop and search, but if someone is that determined to carry a knife or drugs they will just go straight out to buy more of each after the seizure so the figures are essentially meaningless and the civil liberties issue means more to me than trumped up figures. Let's also not forget that not all knives are illegal to carry in public. That's a very defeatist attitude! I'm sure you wouldn't say the same if someone was suspiciously hanging around your house at night? If you don't give the Police some form of powers to check if people are carrying knives then you have no grounds for complaint when some scumbag slits your throat with a knife that the Police weren't authorised stopped and search him for.........or should we ALL carry knives for protection? Agree that not all knives being carried in public are illegal but stopping a middle aged woman on the home from the supermarket with her new set isn't really the issue is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 A helpful start would be a country that fixed its chronic ned infestation. The violent, fascist arm of government could also do with an ideological overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That's a very defeatist attitude! I'm sure you wouldn't say the same if someone was suspiciously hanging around your house at night? If you don't give the Police some form of powers to check if people are carrying knives then you have no grounds for complaint when some scumbag slits your throat with a knife that the Police weren't authorised stopped and search him for.........or should we ALL carry knives for protection? Agree that not all knives being carried in public are illegal but stopping a middle aged woman on the home from the supermarket with her new set isn't really the issue is it? It's not remotely defeatist, it's the truth. If I was on my way to smoke a joint and the police stopped me and confiscated my cannabis, I'd be straight out to buy more. If someone slits my throat tonight the issue will not be "why didn't the police stop and search this person?", because stop and search is not a cover all. You said yourself that police aren't clairvoyant, so stop and search is an arbitrary and inaccurate method of attempting to prevent crime that plays on petty prejudices, gives untrue, inflated or inaccurate data on crime prevention and gives police too much power to interfere in the lives of private citizens. A serving police officer has said asrlier in this thread that he himself feels it is an invasive and uncomfortable process and that not all people in tracksuits are to be criminalised. That's the point right there. A helpful start would be a country that fixed its chronic ned infestation. The violent, fascist arm of government could also do with an ideological overhaul. Correct. Societal issues of poverty, unemployment, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, lack of social housing, poor quality of available social housing, low education levels and lack of prospects are all contributary factors to anti-social behaviour (and that's not even scratching the surface) and stop and search is not going to do a damned thing to change any of them. It's a distraction and a half arsed attempt to provide the police with powers far beyond what is morally and socially acceptable by dressing it up as crime prevention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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