prawnsandwich Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 almost every team scottish teams play in qualifying are match fit coz their season is under way or even 1/2 way through. ok we might just be shit and thats why we cant progress but its not a level playing field . the oter wee teams we play in qualifiying are miles ahead in sharpness especially as they are half way through seasons. why do scottish clubs not want to match the season or ireland or scandinavia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 This has been done plenty times before and both sides have fairly compelling arguments, personally I'd like to try it but standby for a barrage of stats to back up against it as well as for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hibbee Jibbee doesn't approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMjag Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yes, Ireland are exactly the type of country to be modelling our club game around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 'Cause we have better things to do in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 almost every team scottish teams play in qualifying are match fit coz their season is under way or even 1/2 way through. ok we might just be shit and thats why we cant progress but its not a level playing field . the oter wee teams we play in qualifiying are miles ahead in sharpness especially as they are half way through seasons. why do scottish clubs not want to match the season or ireland or scandinavia? You do seem to be compounding 2 different arguments into 1 not very good argument. Are you wanting the season to start in July, or summer football? Aberdeen absolutely trounced a summer league team last week. St Johnstone beat an excellent one (Rosenborg) last season. Celtic have won away to a summer league team this week. Motherwell would just have beaten one if they weren't bottlers. Summer leagues have a really poor Euro record... folk love a myth about them. There are a many problems with summer football, which is why more and more countries have ditched it e.g. Denmark, Russia. Moving on to the "start in July" argument... this is more compelling. It doesn't involve all the negatives, pitfalls and unworkabilities of summer football but it gives the benefits of encouraging teams to be closer to 'proper' sharpness and (at least in the later qualifying rounds) having domestic football on the weekends. At lot of leagues which were are comparable with - much more so that the summer leagues - start on the penultimate / last weekends in July. However 2 things to note. One: this season was complicated by the Commonwealth Games. Two: new SPFL rulebook forbids league games before July 31st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Good result for St.Johnstone, shit result for Motherwell, average result for Aberdeen: move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Good result for St.Johnstone, shit result for Motherwell, average result for Aberdeen: move on! Is it a coincidence that St Johnstone and Aberdeen both got decent results against sides who have also not yet started their league season, while Motherwell f*cked up against a side who are a dozen or so games into theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Is it a coincidence that St Johnstone and Aberdeen both got decent results against sides who have also not yet started their league season, while Motherwell f*cked up against a side who are a dozen or so games into theirs? Yes, or at least there isn't the corrolation some people like to suggest. See: Daugava Riga 0-8 (eight) Aberdeen, and also: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/214321-summer-football-back-on-the-agenda/#entry8539726 I think the UEFA competitions thing is just a canard, tbh. It's fiction. In the last 2 'football cycles'... i.e. the last 8 seasons... Scottish clubs have reached 1 UEFA Cup Final. Our clubs have reached the CL Last 16 thrice. Our clubs have reached groupstages on 12 occasions (mainly Celtic and Rangers but also Aberdeen). That absolutely wipes the floor with the performance of clubs from 'summer' leagues. Over the same time the combined strength of every current summer league in Europe could only muster 20 groupstage appearances in total. Not a single CL knockout appearance. Infact only a handful of EL knockout qualifications, and I don't think any progressed. Scottish clubs reached the CL groupstage 8 times. All the 'summer' leagues combined reached the CL groupstage 4 times. In "head-to-head" meetings Scottish clubs have actually beaten 'summer' league rivals 9 times (Helsinki, Helsingborg, Elfsborg, Karagandy, Dinaburg, Breidalbik, Aaeslunds, Rosenborg, Molde) and lost just 7 times (Hacken, Derry, Elfsborg, Malmo x2, Kaunas, Minsk). However we should note that of those 7 defeats there were 2 defeats of SFL1 clubs and 1 defeat in the Intertoto Cup. Even internationally, only Sweden did better than us, i.e. qualified for major finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthsaint1977 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Saints more than held own against Rosenberg last season over both legs when they were 18 games into season. Too easy to hide behind this summer football carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Despite FIFA and UEFA trying to empire build by making the game all about international and European games, week to week domestic league football will always be the most important for clubs and fans. Rearranging our league to fit in with them is adding to their obvious desire to change domestic football from the season's purpose to a qualifying tournament for the next season's UEFA competitions. This is blatantly wrong. European football should always be a nice little bonus for doing well and no more. The 38 or so league games should never be devalued for the sake of a handful of Euro ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 For me, one of the biggest reasons to at least try and give summer football a shot would be year round football for the TV money. If it became economically worth it to whore ourselves to SKY to get a better product on the park then I'd see that as a fair trade. It really would depend on the money involved. Most Morris Dancers have a 'Jock' team so if the money's right then I'm willing to at least suck it and see. If its just not working we can change it back, probably easier said than done of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 For me, one of the biggest reasons to at least try and give summer football a shot would be year round football for the TV money. If it became economically worth it to whore ourselves to SKY to get a better product on the park then I'd see that as a fair trade. It really would depend on the money involved. Most Morris Dancers have a 'Jock' team so if the money's right then I'm willing to at least suck it and see. If its just not working we can change it back, probably easier said than done of course. What makes you assume Sky would pay more to show Scottish football in the summer? I've said this before but it would absolutely screw up nearly every manager's transfer dealings. Most Scottish clubs sign free agents from England every summer and rely on english clubs spending money on their players. This will be much less likely to happen if we move to summer football. The pros of summer football are pitches might be a bit better and fans don't have to sit in the cold as much. The negatives are that it would completely destroy Scottish football as a competitive entity in Europe. We want to be aligned with the 80% of countries that have proper seasons not the likes of Sweden and Ireland who have summer football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Sligo just beat Rosenberg away and St Pats just drew away to Legia Warsaw Also its not so long since Shamrock Rovers were in the EL group stage,something Scottish clubs would.crave Surely Scottish clubs could better the record of the LOI if its teams were playing in the Summer Shamrock Rovers is the only club from Eire ever to reach a groupstage. Eire's coefficient rating now is prettymuch exactly the same as it was before the switch. Our performance absolutely pastes theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 What makes you assume Sky would pay more to show Scottish football in the summer? I've said this before but it would absolutely screw up nearly every manager's transfer dealings. Most Scottish clubs sign free agents from England every summer and rely on english clubs spending money on their players. This will be much less likely to happen if we move to summer football. The pros of summer football are pitches might be a bit better and fans don't have to sit in the cold as much. The negatives are that it would completely destroy Scottish football as a competitive entity in Europe. We want to be aligned with the 80% of countries that have proper seasons not the likes of Sweden and Ireland who have summer football. I did say if the money was right. I wouldn't be willing to change to summer football if it wasn't good 'overall' for the Scottish game. Its a bit of a catch 22, we could do with more money in the game and IF it was financially viable then it MIGHT be worth it. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon anyway, the SFA have made it clear that its a no no with their no start before 31st July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 You have Celtic to thank for your coefficient and it doesn't seem to be helping the rest How many Scottish clubs have made it to the group stage? Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts. In 2004 the League of Ireland was 39th, they're now... 40th. We want to be aligned with the 80% of countries that have proper seasons not the likes of Sweden and Ireland who have summer football. This. Also consider the fact that only 1 country using summer football is ranked higher than us in the UEFA league coeffients and that's Belarus, and they're at 23rd, just above ourselves at 24th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Shamrock Rovers were the champions of Ireland the year they reached the Europa League group stage. They were knocked out of the Champions League 3rd Qualifying Round and had the Europa League as a fall-back. Their result against Partizan Belgrade in the Europa League play-off round was impressive, but I'm sure plenty of Scottish clubs would reach the Europa League groups if they got to enter the Champions League first and then had the EL as a fall-back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The Irish league is fucking dreadful, this is what pisses me off when folk moan about Scottish football, compare it to similar sized countries and it's actually no bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMjag Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 'Oh, but apart from Celtic' There's always one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 'Oh, but apart from Celtic' There's always one This. If we remove Celtic from the equation, then to make it any sort of fair comparison between leagues you have to remove the top team/champions from the other league as well. Otherwise it leads to ridiculousness like "The Faroe Islands league is performing better in Europe than Scotland*, lol!" *if you exclude Aberdeen and Celtic and St Johnstone and Motherwell and Dundee Utd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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