some amateur teams pay more than junior teams why ?

[RobRoyGuy]

Probably not the right place to ask but my cousins mate was supposed to have some kind of trial with hurlford thistle (was arranged a good bit back ) but he got told recently they only had a handful players at training , all big players have left for another amateur team or junior and they are not far off going to the wall with all the money now being pumped into the junior team from now on.

[cmontheloknow]

...aye,junior fitba is just full of pro's not taking any cash haha

It applies to people of Professional status - i.e. the guys Cotter goes on about at his club playing for nothing. If they've ever signed a Pro contract in the past, they can't sign an Amateur one without reinstating themselves, and they can only do that once. So they sign as expenses only Non Contract Professional. These will be used in the lower leagues at the pseudo-amateur Junior clubs to be able to not pay players who don't have Amateur status.

[cmontheloknow]

What is the difference between being signed as an amateur at junior level or as a professional?

Declared cash, but in the past also retention. Amateurs cannot get anything above expenses (though you hear stories about expenses being very generous in some quarters!) while Professionals have to receive a wage (used to be £1 per week minimum) unless they sign the Non Contract form. In the past, a player who was Amateur could not be retained so this perhaps encouraged Shamateurism whereby a quality player would claim to be an amateur yet still be paid his going rate by way of inflated expenses. At the end of each season, Amateurs were free agents and some players will have played the system a bit. There are also lines of work that force players to be Amateurs. I think the RAF doesn't allow its members to get paid to play football, so any of its airmen have to sign as Amateurs. There were a few guys up North with Elgin, Buckie, etc as well as RAF Lossie JFC when they were going.

With retention done away with, I can see less need for players to sign as amateurs in order to dodge the dreaded retention. So now the only difference I can think of is declared cash.

The bottom line is that as soon as you recieve money to play football, you're a Professional and that is a status you have until you apply to the SFA to revert to being an Amateur. People of Amateur status have done this (you can do it once a career) or have never signed a contract to play football for money.

[Loughal]

Declared cash, but in the past also retention. Amateurs cannot get anything above expenses (though you hear stories about expenses being very generous in some quarters!) while Professionals have to receive a wage (used to be £1 per week minimum) unless they sign the Non Contract form. In the past, a player who was Amateur could not be retained so this perhaps encouraged Shamateurism whereby a quality player would claim to be an amateur yet still be paid his going rate by way of inflated expenses. At the end of each season, Amateurs were free agents and some players will have played the system a bit. There are also lines of work that force players to be Amateurs. I think the RAF doesn't allow its members to get paid to play football, so any of its airmen have to sign as Amateurs. There were a few guys up North with Elgin, Buckie, etc as well as RAF Lossie JFC when they were going.

With retention done away with, I can see less need for players to sign as amateurs in order to dodge the dreaded retention. So now the only difference I can think of is declared cash.

The bottom line is that as soon as you recieve money to play football, you're a Professional and that is a status you have until you apply to the SFA to revert to being an Amateur. People of Amateur status have done this (you can do it once a career) or have never signed a contract to play football for money.

You have cleared up most of the points being discussed on this thread. But?

Is there any need for all the ifs and buts? As pointed out England abolished all the amateur stuff 20/30 years ago and their system is so much easier to opperate. Why cannot the SFA/SJFA/Amateur leagues all sign a clear and simple committment to play for a club at whatever level. If they are being paid then they are profesionals on a written contract, for whatever length they agree to sign for. Surely that does away with all the complications that arise and abolishes the reinstatement racket operated by the SJFA

Looks to me as though the junior game is run by a shower of numpties, who know the other club numpties don't have the gumption to challenge them at the Annual General Meeting and do away with the muti £40 rip offs every season.

[The Old Northerner]

It's now 40 years since the FA abolished the Amateur/Professional distinction in 1974. Just though I'd add that

[HibeeJibee]

You have cleared up most of the points being discussed on this thread. But?

Is there any need for all the ifs and buts? As pointed out England abolished all the amateur stuff 20/30 years ago and their system is so much easier to opperate. Why cannot the SFA/SJFA/Amateur leagues all sign a clear and simple committment to play for a club at whatever level. If they are being paid then they are profesionals on a written contract, for whatever length they agree to sign for. Surely that does away with all the complications that arise and abolishes the reinstatement racket operated by the SJFA.

Ultimately, I suspect SFA don't think it's a big enough issue to impose big reforms, while Juniors and Amateurs want to protect their own demarcations/dominions/income streams.

[Markka]

Probably not the right place to ask but my cousins mate was supposed to have some kind of trial with hurlford thistle (was arranged a good bit back ) but he got told recently they only had a handful players at training , all big players have left for another amateur team or junior and they are not far off going to the wall with all the money now being pumped into the junior team from now on.

We were due to play Hurlford Thistle in a friendly on Saturday but they cancelled, I've heard that was because they were struggling to raise a team.

[noseyass]

Ultimately, I suspect SFA don't think it's a big enough issue to impose big reforms, while Juniors and Amateurs want to protect their own demarcations/dominions/income streams.

Most likely isn't an issue as only one person on any thread that has been concerning amateurs paying players has held his hands up to receiving cash. Others tell us that they 'know' then are contradicted by others that 'know' better. There are loads of 'ifs, buts and maybes' which mean absolutely nothing.

I've mentioned on another thread regarding this that unless people provide factual information that can be verified can it not just be left to be.