Is Nadal the next Armstrong?

[cmontheloknow]

For drug conspiracy types like me, the Cycling News forum is always a fun read. Obviously mainly devoted to cycling, but there are threads about other sports as well.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20

The biggest collection of xenophobes outside of a UKIP conference.

[tinkerbelle]

Maybe the drugs don't work after all.

[sjc]

Maybe the drugs don't work after all.

Or have they just worn off.......

[Marshmallo]

Am I right in saying they only have mandatory testing at Wimbledon from the quarters onwards?

[sjc]

Am I right in saying they only have mandatory testing at Wimbledon from the quarters onwards?

What are you suggesting Marshy?!

[ayrmad]

For drug conspiracy types like me, the Cycling News forum is always a fun read. Obviously mainly devoted to cycling, but there are threads about other sports as well.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20

ETA: most sports have a drug problem way in excess of anyone's suspicions. The drug testing in tennis, for example, is pathetic. The only player I can ever recall calling for more drug tests is Andy Murray. He kens.

While I'm not suggesting in the slightest that Murray is a doper, in real life the loudest are often the guiltiest, although I do think you're correct on this occasion.

[invergowrie arab]

I do not think Nadal needs the world cup thread, he gets all the workouts he need here

Bigger tits myself. He will be all over bustybritain.com

[THE KING]

Or have they just worn off.......

Or hes on a cycle..peaks for thd French then off for wimbledon

[blue4578]

I think that there are an awful lot of questions hanging over Nadal, which may never be answered. The drug testing in tennis has been laughable for years, just like the attempts at rooting out match fixers. The ATP and ITF deal with it by punishing lower ranked players for both failed drugs tests and match fixing, generating very little publicity. The bigger fish can act with impunity because the ATP want to avoid a damaging scandal. I know with absolute certainty that a player in the top 5 of the rankings lost deliberately at least twice in 2008 but got away with it. That summer of 2008 was a terrible time for tennis with literally dozens of very suspicious matches.

Two sports that have faced up to their demons somewhat are cycling and baseball. I think that tennis needs something like the Mitchell Report (click) in MLB, where all allegations are independently investigated.

With regards to the top players, Murray, Djokovic and Federer have all been extremely vocal in calling for more drug testing. Nadal meanwhile has complained numerous times that what little testing there is is intrusive.

[Nightmare]

I know with absolute certainty that a player in the top 5 of the rankings lost deliberately at least twice in 2008 but got away with it. That summer of 2008 was a terrible time for tennis with literally dozens of very suspicious matches.

Top 5 at the time, or top 5 current players?

I can't imagine any of the current 5 having done something like that, but Nikolay Davydenko has been linked with that sort of thing for years, and I'm sure he was hovering about at #3-5 for a good year or two at that time.

I checked. He was.

[ayrmad]

I think that there are an awful lot of questions hanging over Nadal, which may never be answered. The drug testing in tennis has been laughable for years, just like the attempts at rooting out match fixers. The ATP and ITF deal with it by punishing lower ranked players for both failed drugs tests and match fixing, generating very little publicity. The bigger fish can act with impunity because the ATP want to avoid a damaging scandal. I know with absolute certainty that a player in the top 5 of the rankings lost deliberately at least twice in 2008 but got away with it. That summer of 2008 was a terrible time for tennis with literally dozens of very suspicious matches.

Two sports that have faced up to their demons somewhat are cycling and baseball. I think that tennis needs something like the Mitchell Report (click) in MLB, where all allegations are independently investigated.

With regards to the top players, Murray, Djokovic and Federer have all been extremely vocal in calling for more drug testing. Nadal meanwhile has complained numerous times that what little testing there is is intrusive.

There's dodgy stuff in all sports, I remember someone receiving info that a 1/4 shot would lose a 3 horse race, it finished a bad last.

[Shannon]

Djokovic was rather annoyed at Troicki getting banned for failing to give a blood sample. Maybe because a fellow country man but certainly rumours out there about him as well as Nadal.

Good interview with Murray on bans for Troicki and Cilic where he said they were both unprofessional. I cant believe Cilic only got 4 months because he didnt know an over the counter drug his mum bought him contained PED's!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/24872914

Lots of rumours about silent bans for Nadal over last 4 years most probably rubbish but what Spanish footballers and tennis players blood bags were found in operation Puerto? It does seem like a massive cover up while all the cyclists got hammered.

[Loki]

Does Novak still artificially increase his red blood cell count by using the CVAC chamber or did he stop using it?

[banana]

How widespread do you reckon it is in football?

[Marshmallo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/la-liga/9847272/Spanish-football-shaken-by-drug-claims-made-by-former-Real-Sociedad-president.html

[RandomGuy.]

How widespread do you reckon it is in football?

Its pretty much certain that the vast majority of top clubs use them right throughout the system, by that I mean even the youth squads are on PED's, most of the younger players around Europe are fucking machines, which just doesn't make sense. Barca and Real have had a huge fucking shadow over them for decades.

The most famous footballer to ever use it is probably the Brazilian Ronaldo, its well spoken about that PSV considered him too weak when he joined and pumped him full of drugs and thats what caused the constant knee problems and ended his career the way it did. Theres already concerns that Neymars going to suffer the same problems, as Barca put him on an intensive course early on in his career, of course that was just "tonsil surgery" and the fact he gained 5 kilos of muscle in that time was totally random

For what its worth Jordi Alba also got the same operation at the same time coincidentally

[MangoBroccoli]

Interesting point about Sampras (and possibly Djokovic too)

I recall Agassi's autobiography and he talks about watching Sampras play a few years before he makes it big. He talks about how he's a disjointed player etc.

Now it's totally possible he simply got a better coach and improved his game but it's an interesting thought. The way agassi describes him is similar to the way people talk about the sprinter Ben Johnson before his record breaking antics - talented but never world class then bang! Out of nowhere he's smashing his opponents.

And then 2011 Djokovic totally upped his game, although it's perfectly plausible it was just down to his new gluten-free diet.

Obviously this is conjecture but it's an intriguing subject spanning all sorts of sports

[Sarto Mutiny]

Interesting point about Sampras (and possibly Djokovic too)

I recall Agassi's autobiography and he talks about watching Sampras play a few years before he makes it big. He talks about how he's a disjointed player etc.

Now it's totally possible he simply got a better coach and improved his game but it's an interesting thought. The way agassi describes him is similar to the way people talk about the sprinter Ben Johnson before his record breaking antics - talented but never world class then bang! Out of nowhere he's smashing his opponents.

And then 2011 Djokovic totally upped his game, although it's perfectly plausible it was just down to his new gluten-free diet.

Obviously this is conjecture but it's an intriguing subject spanning all sorts of sports

Those in the know tell me that what you have to watch for are the sudden improvements in early-to-mid career. Like Djokovic. Or Froome. Large improvements are probable when you're still young, but very suspicious later on.

See also: FloJo. Absolutely nothing dodgy about that AT ALL.