Wee Bully Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Quelle surprise with the timing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28654142 Interesting that it doesn't actually seem to say anything - no outlining of what the powers will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Didn't he also say that a lot of the costs after the immediate period were to do with computer systems costs ? Costs that we would have to pay anyway under the union ? I'm sure he said these costs would be comparable to the costs we would bear in a future UK anyway. Yes - that is exactly what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Interesting that it doesn't actually seem to say anything - no outlining of what the powers will be. Anyone who admits to being convinced by that should have their right to vote revoked forthwith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Anyone who admits to being convinced by that should have their right to vote revoked forthwith. They refused to allow 'Devo-max' to be an option on the ballot paper but now it's hurriedly rolled out as a promise without any fine detail. Are there polls that we have not been allowed to know the results of? Why are we seeing such obvious signs of panic, if a no vote is such a foregone conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Parr Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I dip in and out of the independence debate so perhaps I'm missing something but I just find it staggering that Alistair Darling is the face of the No campaign. Is he really the best they've got? An utterly insipid politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The poll is Darling's confidence booster before the debate begins, just even things out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 What he actually said is a £200 million immediate cost to which you'd then add a Scottish share of "disentangling costs", and "investments costs for a tax and benefits back office of perhaps as much as £900 million" which he then cuts in half (due to potential efficiency savings) and settles on a figure of around £600-650 million all in for the overall transition costs. He also says that there's uncertainty in this so it's possible it could be more. He treats that figure as a minimum and says ultimately that "Scotland’s voters can be relatively sure that total transition costs over a decade will lie in a restricted range, from 0.4 of one per cent of GDP (£600 million), up to a maximum of 1.1 per cent (£1,500 milion)." http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/a-debate-about-scotlands-transition-costs-a-response-to-mcleans-critique/ I don't think this argument makes much difference either way - even Dunleavy's high estimate of £1.5 billion isn't exactly a reason not to vote for independence if you already believe in it - but in typical fashion we have people taking very reasonable academic analyses and misrepresenting them in some pointless attempt to try and make the numbers marginally more favourable for their agenda. Spread over a decade, Prof Dunleavy's net guesstimate of £650m (inlcuding the £200 - £250m estimated set up costs) doesn't seem quite so bad as the Treasury's scare figure of £1.5bn that was widely reported in the MSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadSaint Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I suspect much of the media will have their 'reviews' of the debate pretty much written by now with a few [ insert relevant comment/example ] much in the way Coronation Street and Eastenders approach big events they have to include a bit on to make it seem current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 What time is the debate being shown? I'm working from home today so I should be able to squeeze it in. I'm in the EST time zone, so that's 5 hours behind you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 What time is the debate being shown? I'm working from home today so I should be able to squeeze it in. I'm in the EST time zone, so that's 5 hours behind you guys. 8pm here on STV/ITV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 8pm here on STV/ITV Perfect. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 8pm here on STV/ITV Great - the missus will be watching Kirstie's Fill Your House With Shite - I won't need to watch this shitefest. If anything significant happens I'm sure it will be in the late news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunkmedal Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Spread over a decade, Prof Dunleavy's net guesstimate of £650m (inlcuding the £200 - £250m estimated set up costs) doesn't seem quite so bad as the Treasury's scare figure of £1.5bn that was widely reported in the MSM. Both sides are actually misrepresenting him: the Treasury butchered his original work in their first estimate and the Yes side seem to be rallying around the £200 million figure as if that's the whole story (which isn't true either, as can be seen in his blog article that I linked to above). It's a good example of the way academic analysis tends to be used by politicians to suit whichever agenda they happen to be pushing - it's also pretty much irrelevant because the difference between £600 million and £1.5 billion isn't going to swing voters one way or the other. Any real estimate is always going to have some element of uncertainty/error built into it so it only makes sense to quote these figures as a range in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Great - the missus will be watching Kirstie's Fill Your House With Shite - I won't need to watch this shitefest. If anything significant happens I'm sure it will be in the late news. Why would you choose not to watch it when you're on here every day dishing out your opinions It might well be shite and it might not be the spanking for Darling that a lot of people expect but I'm quite confident that a few fallacies will be highlighted during this evenings debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Why would you choose not to watch it when you're on here every day dishing out your opinions It might well be shite and it might not be the spanking for Darling that a lot of people expect but I'm quite confident that a few fallacies will be highlighted during this evenings debate. Better quality debate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 It's a good example of the way academic analysis tends to be used by politicians to suit whichever agenda they happen to be pushing My particular favourite example in this regard is when SNP types use Professor Crawford's opinion on timescale of concluding negotiations in their sales pitches.... (something he isn't an expert in) in the same breath which they call his legal advice (which he is an expert in) arrogant and colonial. It's almost admirable in its brass neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Better quality debate here. Nah, we've been going round in circles for months now. The above post being a prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 My wife is going to this. I thought I was in with a shout too but it turns out they were way over subscribed for the Yes side and trying to fill the No allocation. They called my house twice asking if we knew any no voters who would like to go Anyway, suitable and preferably tricky questions for Mr Darling, if you please. Just noticed The Rangers play Hibs tonight and apparently televised from 7.30. Wee dilemma for a few, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Just noticed The Rangers play Hibs tonight and apparently televised from 7.30. Wee dilemma for a few, eh? Whatever will the pundit do? Torn between Darling and his darlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Think people are vastly over estimating the importance of these debates. The reality is most people won't watch, and most of those that do will have made up their mind long ago and won't be for changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.