Blaven Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Ive learned this is a monumental decision and if I think YES is going to lose anyway I may vote YES and my conscience will be clear while I will get the NO result I may prefer. Funny. I don't like labour because the colour RED gives me the boak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassiveFanDan Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Ive been doing a bit of Wiki and although the SNP amongst others did bring Callaghan down it is fair to point out an election was coming anyway and not looking good for Labour.It probably has been a bit of an effective bit of propaganda then ,although still has SNP voting with Thatcher and being left with two MPs and weakened as a result . I'll admit to learning something today. Good man for doing your own research. The situation with the vote of no confidence was a lot more complex than Labour's anti-SNP rewriting would have you believe. The SNP only had 11 MPs in a Parliament of about 650, so I'm not sure how they can really be said to have brought Callaghan down anyway. There just weren't enough of them to topple a UK Government, unless it was on it's last legs anyway (which it was). If enough Scots had voted Yes in '79, we might not have had to suffer Thatcher for very long at all. My alternate history dream has us "receiving" a devolved assembly by the end of 1981, and the truth about the scale of North Sea oil revenues (McCrone, etc.) coming out and being disseminated to the public much earlier as a result. Then an independence refendum in 1985-6, under the auspices of the devolved assembly, and away we go. Yes would've walked it, given that Scotland lost a full fifth of it's workforce to the dole queue in the first two years of Thatcher's reign... and that was her just getting warmed up. This alternate history dream was shared in some respects by the Labour Party and UK Government at the time, though they naturally saw it as a nightmare. The memory of the UK needing an IMF bailout in 1976 would've still been very fresh in their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirez Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Th Im never going to get my head round this.SNP annoyed by the 40% rule that foiled devolution that would have protected Scots from the Thatcher years voted to chuck out Sunny Jim Callaghan and open the door for.........Thatcher.I do have a lot of time for the YES then Labour theory though so it will definitely be a YES or NO from me one way or other. The SNP did not chuck out Sunny Jim's Labour no more than they elected Thatcher The British public elected Thatcher and the Tories at a General Election Scotland did not vote for Thatcher and the Tories in a majority at that election, or indeed any since 1955. Think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Th The SNP did not chuck out Sunny Jim's Labour no more than they elected Thatcher The British public elected Thatcher and the Tories at a General Election Scotland did not vote for Thatcher and the Tories in a majority at that election, or indeed any since 1955. Think about it Then re-elected her two more times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammy Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Th The SNP did not chuck out Sunny Jim's Labour no more than they elected Thatcher The British public elected Thatcher and the Tories at a General Election Scotland did not vote for Thatcher and the Tories in a majority at that election, or indeed any since 1955. Think about it It was UK wide elections, some little village in Yorkshire never voted for Thatcher either, its democracy or the sorry loser club, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirez Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 It was UK wide elections, some little village in Yorkshire never voted for Thatcher either, its democracy or the sorry loser club, get over it. Is the little village in Yorkshire about to have an independence referendum? What an idiotic post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 ^^^ First to admit that the BBC is pro union bias. I have always said that the BBC is pro-Union. I feckin detest the BBC. Truly and deeply despise them. They are also a front for and subsidised by the EU. Get yer teeth intae that pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have always said that the BBC is pro-Union. I feckin detest the BBC. Truly and deeply despise them. They are also a front for and subsidised by the EU. Get yer teeth intae that pal. No need to. I like. Tell me more about this BBC and the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 No need to. I like. Tell me more about this BBC and the EU. It's and old item, but you get the drift. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/9055183/BBC-admits-receiving-millions-in-grants-from-EU-and-councils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 It's and old item, but you get the drift. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/9055183/BBC-admits-receiving-millions-in-grants-from-EU-and-councils.html Dreadful. But hey, what can you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Good man for doing your own research. The situation with the vote of no confidence was a lot more complex than Labour's anti-SNP rewriting would have you believe. The SNP only had 11 MPs in a Parliament of about 650, so I'm not sure how they can really be said to have brought Callaghan down anyway. There just weren't enough of them to topple a UK Government, unless it was on it's last legs anyway (which it was). If enough Scots had voted Yes in '79, we might not have had to suffer Thatcher for very long at all. My alternate history dream has us "receiving" a devolved assembly by the end of 1981, and the truth about the scale of North Sea oil revenues (McCrone, etc.) coming out and being disseminated to the public much earlier as a result. Then an independence refendum in 1985-6, under the auspices of the devolved assembly, and away we go. Yes would've walked it, given that Scotland lost a full fifth of it's workforce to the dole queue in the first two years of Thatcher's reign... and that was her just getting warmed up. This alternate history dream was shared in some respects by the Labour Party and UK Government at the time, though they naturally saw it as a nightmare. The memory of the UK needing an IMF bailout in 1976 would've still been very fresh in their minds. If I was doing this in the style of the Big Debate I would merely ask "did the SNP vote with the Tories in the 79 no confidence vote yes or no ??" I will then repeat each time but a bit louder, that seems to be the way we roll on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 If I was doing this in the style of the Big Debate I would merely ask "did the SNP vote with the Tories in the 79 no confidence vote yes or no ??" I will then repeat each time but a bit louder, that seems to be the way we roll on this. Do point out what the relevance is to Scottish independence please. Why is it you don't have a problem with labour and the Tories shagging each other over Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Do point out what the relevance is to Scottish independence please. Why is it you don't have a problem with labour and the Tories shagging each other over Scotland? Does Dave have a problem with Labour initiating and voting with the Tories in a (failed) no confidence vote at Holyrood earlier this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Does Dave have a problem with Labour initiating and voting with the Tories in a (failed) no confidence vote at Holyrood earlier this year?Now that is a good point my friend.I suppose my only somewhat pish get out is Ruth Davidson wouldn't then take over as First Minister but would just enable a Labour government. I can smell my own hypocrisy though and may have to put the 79 thing to bed.I was 17 though and reeking of Clearasil and Blue Stratos so easily influenced by a bit of spin.Also may have still been on a nationalistic downer since Argentina 78 and still hurting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Now that is a good point my friend.I suppose my only somewhat pish get out is Ruth Davidson wouldn't then take over as First Minister but would just enable a Labour government. I can smell my own hypocrisy though and may have to put the 79 thing to bed.I was 17 though and reeking of Clearasil and Blue Stratos so easily influenced by a bit of spin.Also may have still been on a nationalistic downer since Argentina 78 and still hurting. Why is it that Ruth Davidson as First Minister doesn't sound as horrific as Johann Lamont as First Minister? Is it just me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why is it that Ruth Davidson as First Minister doesn't sound as horrific as Johann Lamont as First Minister? Is it just me? YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 YES.I hope so I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Just a thought, for the next debate, would you want to see Salmond Vs Darling again, and go through the same old pish, or could there be a better pairing to appeal to the dont knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I hope so I really do. I was only kidding, I'd vote for The Pundit b4 I'd vote for Lamont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Just a thought, for the next debate, would you want to see Salmond Vs Darling again, and go through the same old pish, or could there be a better pairing to appeal to the dont knows? Good point. Don't think it will matter though, for whoever they get for the No side will be briefed to just ask the same question over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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