Youth Systems

[SFC1884]

Great insight Larbert, I believe the SFA are also keen for a Highland Academy between ICT and RC.

[parsforlife]

Great insight Larbert, I believe the SFA are also keen for a Highland Academy between ICT and RC.

I think the sfa ideally want a regional academy for every region in country, probably only 4-5 clubs will be running their own academy in their ideal scenario, and that's only becouse they don't believe they will be able to make the Edinburgh clubs or the bigot bros merge.

[Larbert_Par]

Yup SFC1884, that's my understanding too. All part of Mark Wotte's vision to improve the game at grassroots. I think the pilot in Forth Valley has, so far, been a success overall so if the Fife equivalent also does well, then I can see more popping up across the country.

[DAFC]

Bitch please, I wouldn't piss on Celtic if they were on fire.

My point is Ayr are competing at a significantly lower level than we are, but then one glance at the teams playing in the u20s league compared to the u19s league proves that with ease. I really don't understand how it's difficult to comprehend.

Oh yes they did. .http://www.celticfc.net/news/5907 case closed.

I love how this gets you raging as if we would deliberately drop local players even if they were better than guys from further afield. You sound like a bitter boys club coach who's lost his best players.

I'm not sure who would give us cash depending on where a player is from btw, the majority of our external funding is from the sfa and they couldn't give a f**k where a player is from.

It's not effectively a setup, they are exploiting a cash cow in order to be able to afford the best rejects from other teams.

All the decent players left. Scougall, mchattie.

I know people whose kids went to the pars at youth level and went onto hearts, they said the difference was like night and day. Another dealt personally with wright and is related to one of the best young players in the country so knows all about Dundee united also.

With full time training and lots of money thrown at it our young players were embarrassed by a part time setup with players who up until a few months ago were out on the piss most weekends.

Unbelievably the setup is better than what we used to have but we used to bring through better players like Nish and Clark who at least had careers at a decent level.

Hamilton and Falkirk is the level we should be aiming for.

[Cliche Guevara]

Oh yes they did. .http://www.celticfc.net/news/5907 case closed.

Oh no they didn't. It was an u19s' competition. Ayr's team did not have a superior age advantage and, significantly, one of our best sixteen-year-olds scored ten goals in the first team and didn't feature in the competition.

What the 'Celtic-minded' website you linked failed to do, as ever, was even look at the opposition and make a meaningful and accurate comparison. It was an u19 competition and the point originally made adequately answered the question you asked.

The fact that you are stating there is to be a Fife Academy effectively takes you out of the game as Dunfermline no longer has a youth set-up. According to information provided by you.

Feel free to explain how completely failing at u20 level is better than relative success at u19 level, too, by the way...

[HoBNob]

Completely failing at u20 level? Genuinely not sure if you're being serious.

[parsforlife]

It's not effectively a setup, they are exploiting a cash cow in order to be able to afford the best rejects from other teams.

All the decent players left. Scougall, mchattie.

I know people whose kids went to the pars at youth level and went onto hearts, they said the difference was like night and day. Another dealt personally with wright and is related to one of the best young players in the country so knows all about Dundee united also.

With full time training and lots of money thrown at it our young players were embarrassed by a part time setup with players who up until a few months ago were out on the piss most weekends.

Unbelievably the setup is better than what we used to have but we used to bring through better players like Nish and Clark who at least had careers at a decent level.

Hamilton and Falkirk is the level we should be aiming for.

Mchattie left because hearts were unsurprisingly offering him more cash. Scrougall left just as things were turning around for the better , he left due to Livi's past reputation, but given our progress if a player of a similar age/ability is put in the same situation we are far better placed to keep them than we were at that time.

I'm not in any way bothered about comparisons between hearts or Dundee united, we are a significantly smaller club than them , I can handle that.

Nish left over a decade ago and Clarke not long after, football has changed dramatically since then, more so in scotland and our situation has changed more than most.

Yeah we should be targeting the success of Falkirk/Hamilton, but not achieving that isn't a great shame.

Oh no they didn't. It was an u19s' competition. Ayr's team did not have a superior age advantage and, significantly, one of our best sixteen-year-olds scored ten goals in the first team and didn't feature in the competition.

What the 'Celtic-minded' website you linked failed to do, as ever, was even look at the opposition and make a meaningful and accurate comparison. It was an u19 competition and the point originally made adequately answered the question you asked.

The fact that you are stating there is to be a Fife Academy effectively takes you out of the game as Dunfermline no longer has a youth set-up. According to information provided by you.

Feel free to explain how completely failing at u20 level is better than relative success at u19 level, too, by the way...

Of course the site is "Celtic minded" it's Celtic's official site!

Erm yes they did, just becouse it was an u19s comp doesn't mean they didn't play their u17s, I did look for an Ayr report but none seems to exist, the only thing to back up the claims that Ayr played a young side too is from here/honest page, nothing in any way official. Oh and even those claims aren't that Ayr mostly play an u17s side, the info i can gather suggests you side is mostly 1st year u19s, with a couple of 2nd year u19s and 2-3 u17s. That's not a highly unusual situation.

I'm not sure how you can say we won't have a youth set-up, it's not like we won't have dafc youth players, we will, they will just be playing as part of the academy, the fife academy won't be a independent set up. Do the much praised falkirk not count any more either? Also we will continue to play our own u20s side.

I don't know how you can say we have completely failed at u20s, I think you just made that up.

And yes our performance is better than that of Ayr at u19s, in the same way Ross county are better than qots.

I'm sure ayr's invite to play in the u20s in is the post tho, you know because they have been soo amazing at the level bellow.

[Stevie Aitken's Love Child]

As witnessed of course by Hamilton or Livingston's notoriously vast, modern fanbase.

The world is not always so black and white you know. Failures in other systems doesn't necessarily mean that ours will fail, and I would rather that we had something over nothing. I am fully behind everything that the Community Trust are trying to do.

[vikingTON]

I'm not sure why it's an issue of 'black or white', as opposed to measuring the claims of youth development by its own, rotational list of goals. There is not a scrap of evidence to show that running youth teams increases the likelihood or the hard numbers of fans coming through the gate in this, or any other generation. Indeed there's no valid reason to suspect that it should.

There is also no evidence to show that a back of a fag packet attempt at a youth conveyor will actually be selling on players for megabucks, and certainly not while the first-team, already severely hampered by nonsense like the 8-8-8 squad structure of last season, languish in League One, if not, League Two by the end of the rather convenient five/ten year grace period in which the system apparently mustn't be criticised. If the club is even still operating at senior level in five years' time.

[Ayr Utd Youth]

From Official Ayr United Youth Academy website Article re : financial donation from The Aberdeen Ayr United Supporters Club :

" How valuable that contribution is was highlighted recently as the Academy met with Mark Wotte to discuss moving up a grade to 4 star status by season 2015/16 to be on the same level as elite SPFL youth teams. The contributions we get every year from everyone who contributes gives the Academy the ability to get there, but the generosity of the Aberdeen branch knows no bounds. "

So Ayr United Youth Academy moves towards Elite status as it is a separate Legal Entity from the Club and separately Funded just as Dunfermline FC give up Youth Development autonomy to be absorbed into the new SFA Fife Regional Academy .

Also the invite to u20s has been received in the post as Ayr United will play u20s next season.

[parsforlife]

From Official Ayr United Youth Academy website Article re : financial donation from The Aberdeen Ayr United Supporters Club :

" How valuable that contribution is was highlighted recently as the Academy met with Mark Wotte to discuss moving up a grade to 4 star status by season 2015/16 to be on the same level as elite SPFL youth teams. The contributions we get every year from everyone who contributes gives the Academy the ability to get there, but the generosity of the Aberdeen branch knows no bounds. "

So Ayr United Youth Academy moves towards Elite status as it is a separate Legal Entity from the Club and separately Funded just as Dunfermline FC give up Youth Development autonomy to be absorbed into the new SFA Fife Regional Academy .

Also the invite to u20s has been received in the post as Ayr United will play u20s next season.

Dunfermline fc are dead , cricket playing c***s.

I wouldn't be so ready to dismiss us as we are pooling resources with other fife teams, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see an ayrshire academy put in place within the next few years. Moving towards elite status isn't guaranteed btw , a year is a long time and you may well find yourselves not ticking all the right boxes.

If your playing u20s next year then we'll get the chance to see who is better club is. I fully expect us to finish above you, as we will at first team level.

Eta- presumably Ayr's will be have u20s will be full time?

[Tonsilitis]

Dunfermline fc are dead , cricket playing c***s.

I wouldn't be so ready to dismiss us as we are pooling resources with other fife teams, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see an ayrshire academy put in place within the next few years. Moving towards elite status isn't guaranteed btw , a year is a long time and you may well find yourselves not ticking all the right boxes.

If your playing u20s next year then we'll get the chance to see who is better club is. I fully expect us to finish above you, as we will at first team level.

Eta- presumably Ayr's will be have u20s will be full time?

How does a pooled academy work when a first team player comes through?

[Tonsilitis]

From Official Ayr United Youth Academy website Article re : financial donation from The Aberdeen Ayr United Supporters Club :

" How valuable that contribution is was highlighted recently as the Academy met with Mark Wotte to discuss moving up a grade to 4 star status by season 2015/16 to be on the same level as elite SPFL youth teams. The contributions we get every year from everyone who contributes gives the Academy the ability to get there, but the generosity of the Aberdeen branch knows no bounds. "

So Ayr United Youth Academy moves towards Elite status as it is a separate Legal Entity from the Club and separately Funded just as Dunfermline FC give up Youth Development autonomy to be absorbed into the new SFA Fife Regional Academy .

Also the invite to u20s has been received in the post as Ayr United will play u20s next season.

Morton are also hoping for an upgrade to level four, if not this season then certainly next.

[callum-ayr]

Dunfermline fc are dead , cricket playing c***s.

I wouldn't be so ready to dismiss us as we are pooling resources with other fife teams, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see an ayrshire academy put in place within the next few years. Moving towards elite status isn't guaranteed btw , a year is a long time and you may well find yourselves not ticking all the right boxes.

If your playing u20s next year then we'll get the chance to see who is better club is. I fully expect us to finish above you, as we will at first team level.

Eta- presumably Ayr's will be have u20s will be full time?

I'm certain all our youth squads are full time, could be wrong. When we had the likes of Stevenson who was full time with Ayr, he'd train a few times with the youth squad, as well as the 2 times a week with the full team, to make up his full time contract.

[parsforlife]

How does a pooled academy work when a first team player comes through?

The clubs are still responsible for recruiting players, they register the players as normal and then make contributions to the academy based on the number of players they send to the academy.

Once the players reach the end of u17s they would then join up with the club they are registered to for u19s/20s. I suppose if their was a u17s player the club wants to play in the u19s/20s or first team then they could either be pulled out the academy or split their training between the club and the academy.

[Ayr Utd Youth]

There are no u19s or Reserve Leagues for any Clubs next season.

The " U20s " will consist of a MAX 5 overage outfield players plus a Goalkeeper.

Basically U20s is the Reserves at all Clubs next season , mixture of 1st Team Pros coming back from injury and finding fitness and the youngsters.

[parsforlife]

There are no u19s or Reserve Leagues for any Clubs next season.

The " U20s " will consist of a MAX 5 overage outfield players plus a Goalkeeper.

Basically U20s is the Reserves at all Clubs next season , mixture of 1st Team Pros coming back from injury and finding fitness and the youngsters.

Having a unified structure makes sense.

Presume we are still running with two tiers then? Are Ayr stepping up or not?

[Ayr Utd Youth]

I think we will all need to wait for the Fixtures which are not out yet .

[Larbert_Par]

How does a pooled academy work when a first team player comes through?

Essentially, a player registered with Dunfermline in the academy would still be registered with them, therefore Dunfermline would be able to field him in the under-20s / first team, exactly the same as is now. What it also potentially could mean if, for argument's sake, a DAFC registered player comes through but they then don't feel he's good enough, you could see one of the other Fife teams looking to take him on.

Dunfermline initially weren't took keen on going for the regional academy, but the process in evaluating it's pros / cons has been going on for a considerable period of time. The club believe that they needed to have their players playing at elite level; they felt a 3 star academy for example wouldn't be beneficial as the standard of player, they felt, would be superior to clubs operating at level three and, therefore, not aiding their development. The financial cost of attaining and running an elite academy at League One level was deemed to be too much, which is a factor in why they've chosen to go down the regional route.

[Gaz FFC]

Most successful setup? Possibly.

The best setup? Probably not.

Teams like Falkirk, Livi and Hearts have been forced into playing youths. Had they not been financially mismanaged I severely doubt the likes of Sibbald, Scougall, etc would be known up and down the country.

The chances are most teams would uncover some gems if they had the confidence (or their hands tied!) to give players 100+ games before they are 20 years old.

Forced to play youths?

What a load of pish.

We were playing 5-6 weekly in the SPL whilst spending a fortune on signings and finishing top of the bottom 6.