Swello Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I would guess that every club - no matter if they are well run or Rangers - will need to take similar steps to Hearts, it seems inevitable and is only a matter of time. How drastic cuts are at each club will probably be revealing about underlying financial health. As far as I can see, at Premiership level, income is very "lumpy" - most clubs get a big wad of season ticket money in the summer (which accounts for most of their "gate money" and then get some big lump sum payments for TV money at points in the season and not much in between - so the problem might be about cash flow as much as anything else given that there is more tv money due whenever it can be decided to pay it out. I would be interested to see how significant fortnightly "gate money" is at a club like Hearts where the vast majority of seats at any given game are paid for up front via season tickets (and the stadium occupancy is very high by scottish standards). In short - I'm a wee bit surprised that Hearts have blinked first amongst the bigger clubs as I'd have thought that a high proportion of their money for the season is either in their hands already or due soon given that we've played 30 games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Swello said: In short - I'm a wee bit surprised that Hearts have blinked first amongst the bigger clubs as I'd have thought that a high proportion of their money for the season is either in their hands already or due soon given that we've played 30 games. They've already spoke of taking on court cases if they're relegated. It's a brilliant play by Budge. Reduce outgoings now, put the fear of redundancies and major cost cutting out even before the league has decided what it's going to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weetoonlad Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 They've already spoke of taking on court cases if they're relegated. It's a brilliant play by Budge. Reduce outgoings now, put the fear of redundancies and major cost cutting out even before the league has decided what it's going to do. She couldn't run a Bath total shambles of a club . changed days lol lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wonder Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Swello said: I would guess that every club - no matter if they are well run or Rangers - will need to take similar steps to Hearts, it seems inevitable and is only a matter of time. How drastic cuts are at each club will probably be revealing about underlying financial health. As far as I can see, at Premiership level, income is very "lumpy" - most clubs get a big wad of season ticket money in the summer (which accounts for most of their "gate money" and then get some big lump sum payments for TV money at points in the season and not much in between - so the problem might be about cash flow as much as anything else given that there is more tv money due whenever it can be decided to pay it out. I would be interested to see how significant fortnightly "gate money" is at a club like Hearts where the vast majority of seats at any given game are paid for up front via season tickets (and the stadium occupancy is very high by scottish standards). In short - I'm a wee bit surprised that Hearts have blinked first amongst the bigger clubs as I'd have thought that a high proportion of their money for the season is either in their hands already or due soon given that we've played 30 games. She said the other day we'll lose £500k from the 4 home league fixtures we were due. Not insignificant. The business plan would have seen us afford to see out the season comfortably and then get ST money in, the same as most clubs. as said before, it's not like we should be factoring njn a global pandemic. We are obviously spending too much, but as I've said before, no team will be able to go 6 months without income and make no cuts. With the exception of Celtic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Of course not, but teams who have Hearts income should have enough money to see them through a season no matter what. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Of course not, but teams who have Hearts income should have enough money to see them through a season no matter what. You're being incredibly naive here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Of course not, but teams who have Hearts income should have enough money to see them through a season no matter what. I have total sympathy for clubs who are well run but with a limited fan base who will struggle during the current crisis. However Hearts do not fall into that category. They fall into the category of mismanagement. Bottom of the League but their average player wage is between 3 and 6 times more than an average St Mirren player's wage for example. They can pay 150k in the Jan window for a player unlike any other club bar the OF. Their fans have donated in excess of £9 million to the Club. 3rd highest attendances in Scotland. Biggest playing squad bar the OF. Sacking staff like Levein but keeping him on the payroll. Outwith the OF every club in Scotland would love the resources that Hearts have. Hearts have just pissed most of it down the drain through bad management. Self inflicted wounds. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, NorthBank said: I have total sympathy for clubs who are well run but with a limited fan base who will struggle during the current crisis. However Hearts do not fall into that category. They fall into the category of mismanagement. Bottom of the League but their average player wage is between 3 and 6 times more than an average St Mirren player's wage for example. They can pay 150k in the Jan window for a player unlike any other club bar the OF. Their fans have donated in excess of £9 million to the Club. 3rd highest attendances in Scotland. Biggest playing squad bar the OF. Sacking staff like Levein but keeping him on the payroll. Outwith the OF every club in Scotland would love the resources that Hearts have. Hearts have just pissed most of it down the drain through bad management. Self inflicted wounds. How they spend their money is a very different argument from how prepared they are for a global pandemic shutting the league down for an indefinite period. All those things you've said are irrelevant to the situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: How they spend their money is a very different argument from how prepared they are for a global pandemic shutting the league down for an indefinite period. All those things you've said are irrelevant to the situation. Not really. They have huge resources but squandered them with seemingly little in reserve for unforseen circumstances. Bad management. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, NorthBank said: Not really. They have huge resources but squandered them with seemingly little in reserve for unforseen circumstances. Bad management. I think most clubs in our league (probably with the exception of Celtic) will run very close to the wire - simply because leaving big wads of cash in reserve will likely make you uncompetitive compared to your peers. I'd be careful about getting stuck into Hearts too much over this as even clubs that are seen as well run won't have huge reserves to deal with something as bad/unforeseeable as this. Clubs like St Mirren or Motherwell will have "relegation" planning in place where income goes down - no-one will have plans in place for income ceasing all together as it is unprecedented. Scottish football has largely moved away from the "rich owner" model and practically all clubs will need to make some sink or swim decisions between now and the new season starting..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I don’t understand why Hearts are struggling so much. It’s not as if they have been paying out a load of win bonuses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, NorthBank said: Not really. They have huge resources but squandered them with seemingly little in reserve for unforseen circumstances. Bad management. If we were sitting here and Hearts had done this in the event of relegation then I'd be in total agreement with you. Except we're not. Hearts are just the first club to do this. I'd say every club barring maybe Celtic are facing serious cash flow issues imminently. It's very easy to say they should have pocketed the income in reserve for an event like this but there's a balancing act. Pre global pandemic, how many fans donating money by direct debit would be happy for Ann Budge to say they're just pocketing it 'just in case'. You need to allocate resources to the extent that the income keeps coming in. Clearly the way they've spent it has been a disaster but the fact that they spent it at all is understandable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, NorthBank said: seemingly little in reserve for unforseen circumstances. Out of interest, do you personally have six months money behind you if you had no income coming in but still had to continue living the way you do? Or would you cut your cloth accordingly? Edited March 19, 2020 by Dele 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbowrising Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, NorthBank said: Not really. They have huge resources but squandered them with seemingly little in reserve for unforseen circumstances. Bad management. Unforeseen would typically be relegation where you think it would never happen. These events are completely random. Even major companies in the economy- with more money than all of Scottish football has put together - will start to crack if this goes on much longer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Merkland Red said: Football clubs seem to be unique in thinking they can spend millions every year without having any reserves. If you spend £7m a year on wages, you should have that in the bank at the start, if you dont, you cut back until you do. Football needs to have a long hard look at itself and its finances as too many clubs are walking a tightrope. This could be a blessing if it wakes them up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: If you spend £7m a year on wages, you should have that in the bank at the start, if you dont, you cut back until you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 This school of economics class is being brought to you, in part, by RandomGuy. A man who supports a team, who, half way through a season decided there is no home stand and sold its bum hole to the Old Firm to cover massive losses. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddie06smfc Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 They've already spoke of taking on court cases if they're relegated. It's a brilliant play by Budge. Reduce outgoings now, put the fear of redundancies and major cost cutting out even before the league has decided what it's going to do. It absolutely isn’t. It should raise questions as to her ability to run a business. Morale already unquestionably low, this will do nothing to boost morale of anyone connected to the club. It is complete mis-management. They had a cup tie on tv in the not so distant past this will have brought in decent funds along with a full stand of Rangers fans paying £30+ a head. How anyone can class this as brilliant play is ridiculous, it should raise multiple concerns with it being one of the biggest clubs in the country. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyzer0 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 11 hours ago, HibsFan said: Absolutely zero sympathy for their ... tory support. Weak, weak patter there - and with a basically open goal to aim at as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 40 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Football clubs seem to be unique in thinking they can spend millions every year without having any reserves. If you spend £7m a year on wages, you should have that in the bank at the start, if you dont, you cut back until you do. Football needs to have a long hard look at itself and its finances as too many clubs are walking a tightrope. This could be a blessing if it wakes them up. I don't know where to even begin with this line of thinking. The biggest companies in the world likely don't operate on that basis. Why should football clubs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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