NELLY Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 quote name="Muzza81" post="9100106" timestamp="1420553640"] Once all the players are 'academy players' and not individual players what is the process for clubs signing them? Is it up to the player? For example if the academy produced a Ryan Gauld but he had no club how would the situation be resolved. Not fully agreed as yet - we have now gone through various drafts and are almost there. There are many complex issues - my recollection of what is proposed is that if any club wants to sign a player, the others are notified and can make an offer within a predetermined timescale. There is to be an independent FEFA panel/committee with a couple of independent appointees - appointed by the 4 clubs but not employed/linked with any of them who will give the player advice but ultimately the player decides. Sounds like if theres a couple of stars within this set up in the future it could get complicated and likely that cowden wouldnt benefit.Hope im wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince sinclair Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Muzz n CC, r u married to each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 He's not my type... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi21 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 You seen bitter about something or someone. Every time our youth system pops up you come steaming in moaning about it. Are you related to one of these players? Care to name them if they are 2 of the best 5 talents in the SE? you had the boy jack wright and I'm lead to believe you had 1 or 2 boys from tyncastle and further to add I have no blood relatives within that club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Is Jack Wright no longer with the club? First I heard. No idea what relevance a couple of boys from Tynecastle are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Sounds like if theres a couple of stars within this set up in the future it could get complicated and likely that cowden wouldnt benefit.Hope im wrong.Well I can't tell the future but there are many aspects to be considered e.g. how transfer fees are shared when an ex-FEFA player is sold by a Fife club that signed him, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 you had the boy jack wright and I'm lead to believe you had 1 or 2 boys from tyncastle and further to add I have no blood relatives within that club Jack Wright and Kyle Mitchell on what I have seen seem to be good prospects and are Modern Apprentices at Cowden - aged just 17 think they could be knocking on the door soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Muzz n CC, r u married to each other?No just whiling away the time sitting in the hoose and looking at youth academy agreements, red card appeals, corresponding with the owners about rent, arranging fixtures, etc - I thought Muzz would be hard at work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi21 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Jack Wright and Kyle Mitchell on what I have seen seem to be good prospects and are Modern Apprentices at Cowden - aged just 17 think they could be knocking on the door soon I knew the first boy as he came along with stevie when my son left for personnel reason not due to football that's why I always check the site and reply when I think it due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 You thought wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdenbeath Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Is Jack Wright no longer with the club? First I heard. No idea what relevance a couple of boys from Tynecastle are. Jack's still at Cowden one of the full timers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 No idea what that Livi guy is gibbering on about then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Cowden Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 CJ is a young lad with potential - he is not the finished article yet so needs a bit of time. We give young lads time and don't make snap judgements - that is how youth development works. I think we have a reasonable track record on that score. 'Bin him' is not what I would expect to hear from fans re an injured player - we treat players more decently than that - albeit as should be readily apparent there is no means to bin anyone under contract. We paid Danny Mackay and Dene Droudge for extended periods after they suffered bad injuries (beyond their agreed contract dates) and have done the same for Dale Finnie who has been badly affected by injuries. CJ maybe has potential but that's not a reason to play him at this level. He isn't ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 No that isn't true. All 4 Fife clubs had Academies - Dunfermline 3 star, Cowden and Raith 2 star, East Fife 1 star. Mark Wotte at the SFA was keen on Regional academies and Fife was seen as an area where this could work. The clubs were not railroaded into a Regional Academy as each could have kept their own set up - Forth Valley did not have all the Stirlingshire clubs in it for example - you would need two clubs at least though to set up a Regional academy. The reality for Cowden was that running your own youth set up as a part time club was time consuming, costly, had lots of administrative and personnel issues and we were unlikely to ever get beyond 2 star. Dunfermline had been 4 star and hoped to get back to that but it was a challenge. However, by centralising into a separate entity the aim was to produce something greater than the sum of its parts - reach and at least maintain a 4 star level, it streamlines and centralises the admin and personnel challenges, employ the best coaches, and with its enhanced standing/status it is hoped that the best youngsters in Fife can be attracted rather than them going to the Old Firm, Dundee Utd, etc. It will no doubt take time to get where we want it to get to and there will doubtless be some teething issues. There is propaganda against it from various sources - kids, their parents, coaches who weren't selected for example may decry it. The fact is that the 4 clubs were in effect running boys clubs with only a few players ever going the whole way through to the first team. The elite aspect is designed to hothouse the very best prospects and concentrate resources on those most likely to make it. Those excluded may still make it or be late developers and there are plenty of other clubs where they can continue to play and develop with. There is also propaganda around club rivalries. The ownership of the academy is say something like Dunfermline 43%, Cowden and Raith 21% each and East Fife the rest - I cant recall the exact split. You then get some Dunfermline fans saying 'we are the big club we should have our own academy' and the other 3 have fans saying 'it is Dunfermline dominated we shouldn't be accepting that'. Coaches who have left and had their own fiefdoms might tend to support such views. Asking how many players any club has in the Academy is a symptom of that sort of thinking. I don't know re Cowden off the top of my head (it isn't a big number) but eventually all the players will be academy not club players - we are in a transition period. Starting off with strict quotas for players from each club defeats the concept of an elite academy - it is merit not club which should have been the key driver behind player/coach selection. Each club has appointed a Director to be in charge of its academy involvement and it is a crucial part of that that they ensure that the Academy is run in a fair and balanced manner with no bias to any club. That isn't necessarily easy but is part of their role. Mechanisms are being established to ensure each club has a fair opportunity to sign players produced by the Academy - we need to see how well they work. So who knows if it will work but it is a genuine attempt to do something different to capture local talent and ensure they end up playing for the local senior clubs. The previous system with 4 set ups had lots of difficulties and challenges which were not lessening over time. Why not give it a chance? I have no problem giving it a chance. However, I believe that Cowden will get no benefit from it. The better players will be offered better deals by Dunfermline or Raith. Sadly, our youth set up feeding the first team will be no more. I heard that we only had two players in the new set up (and of course they are no longer 'ours' anyway). Also, do the kids need to live in Fife to be eligible? Or, are the kids who are rejected from other regions taking places from Fife kids? I am not convinced that this type of set up works. I understand why they are doing it, but I don't think it addresses the real issue (not nearly enough good quality coaches with the right attitude). I think it weakens the quality of the main pool of kids playing football in the respective areas and concentrates the coaching efforts on too few. I am not involved in it in any form, but I do know of kids who are in the set up who already act like they have 'made it' and other kids who are petrified of making mistakes (to the point that they are physically sick before games). I was under the impression that Dunfermline would have set up their own team, but their unexpected defeat by Cowden in the play-offs, prolonging their stay in league 1, snookered this and they then hastily pushed for this Fife team to be set up, which of course they do dominate, despite what anyone says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 CJ has looked good most of the time I have seen him play.There is only one game I remember where he was poor and that was a reserve game. He just needs more game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NELLY Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Serious question for debate. Has the club progressed within the last 6 months.Im not meaning on the park only I mean off it also - I also mean in way of youth development in way of engaging with fans. Has our squad progressed to a slightly higher level than the team we finished last season with. We were told how important it was for cowden to stay up and the progression the club could make on and off the park.It just seems to me I dont see this progression on and off the field. This is not a critiscism its merely an observation. I dont expect us to increase our budget by x3 over last season but due to incoming monies I just expect our squad to be better than it currently is. I wish we had more fans coming in through the gate but I honestly believe you could have messi and suarez in the current team and that would add only 200 people and 100 of those would be reporters/media lol. In terms of off the field. Where are we with funding/developing new stadia or are we going to continue to rent until....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I heard that we only had two players in the new set up (and of course they are no longer 'ours' anyway). Neither of those statements are correct. Also, do the kids need to live in Fife to be eligible? Or, are the kids who are rejected from other regions taking places from Fife kids? No they do not have to be from Fife as far as I know plus kids rejected from other regions/academies (if any) will be signed if they are the best players. I am not convinced that this type of set up works. I understand why they are doing it, but I don't think it addresses the real issue (not nearly enough good quality coaches with the right attitudes). A club or region set up has no impact on that aspect. I think it weakens the quality of the main pool of kids playing football in the respective areas and concentrates the coaching efforts on too few. Well it concentrates on an Elite - the idea is to produce 1st team players and ideally players good enough to play at Premiership level - so nobody who would have made it through the existing set ups is missed, we can attract other better players that would have went to non-Fife Academies, plus we concentrate our efforts on those most likely to make it not having to run a squad of 20 when maybe only 5 had a real chance of making it. Nobody is lost to the game though as there are many other local youth set ups that will consequently find it easier to build a squad and doubtless some of these players e.g late developers can still make it in the game. I am not involved in it in any form, but I do know of kids who are in the set up who already act like they have 'made it' and other kids who are petrified of making mistakes (to the point that they are physically sick before games). Every Academy has kids who think they have made it. These are games where scores aren't generally reported nor are League tables kept. I accept there was some pressure on during trials to make the squad - but that is what happens in football. I was under the impression that Dunfermline would have set up their own team, but their unexpected defeat by Cowden in the play-offs, prolonging their stay in league 1, snookered this and they then hastily pushed for this Fife team to be set up, which of course they do dominate, despite what anyone says. Not true - Dunfermline did not hastily push for this. There was a need for speed but nothing to do with Dunfermline. The fact that they ended up in League 1 may have been one factor which influenced their decision to go with a Fife set up rather than their own. Dunfermline dominate it to the extent that they are c43% investors so have in effect 43% of the say plus ccosts to fund. There are other advantages in terms of attracting sponsorship, council support which is a good deal easier on a Fife wide basis where 4 clubs used to compete for such support and that created difficulties sometimes for sponsors/council, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I see Inverness is doing a pay what you want scheme against St Johnstone. A few other teams have done it as well and seems to be successful. This could be a good idea for us against one of the teams at the bottom end of the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I see Inverness is doing a pay what you want scheme against St Johnstone. A few other teams have done it as well and seems to be successful. This could be a good idea for us against one of the teams at the bottom end of the division. Colin - it is an interesting concept. My question though is how do you measure if it's a success or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 You don't really need to. You get a wee bit of publicity, you more or less make the same money you would make otherwise and it should boost the crowd and give a wee bit of atmosphere that wouldn't be there. Dumbarton, Alloa and Livi the three teams in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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