ICTChris Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 On the 14th May 1994 Inverness Thistle and Caldonian played their last official games as separate clubs. Caley drew 1-1 with that years Highland League champions Huntly at Christie Park. Inverness Thistle lost 2-0 to Lossiemouth at Kingsmills Park. Between them the two clubs won the Highland League title 26 times (18 for Caley, 8 for Thistle), the North of Scotland cup 33 times (20 for Caley, 13 for Thistle), the old Qualifying Cup 18 times (13 times Caley, 5 times Thistle) and the Highland League Cup 8 times (Caley 5 times, Thistle 3 times). Between them both clubs defeated League opposition 23 times in the Scottish cup (19 for Caley, 4 for Thistle). Caley were the first ever non-league side to hold a Premier League side in the cup when they pegged back St Johnstone to a 2-2 draw in 1992. Thistle's best ever cup result was when they beat Kilmarnock, then of the First Division, 3-0 at Kingsmills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Vale Vale Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 On the 14th May 1994 Inverness Thistle and Caldonian played their last official games as separate clubs. Caley drew 1-1 with that years Highland League champions Huntly at Christie Park. Inverness Thistle lost 2-0 to Lossiemouth at Kingsmills Park. Between them the two clubs won the Highland League title 26 times (18 for Caley, 8 for Thistle), the North of Scotland cup 33 times (20 for Caley, 13 for Thistle), the old Qualifying Cup 18 times (13 times Caley, 5 times Thistle) and the Highland League Cup 8 times (Caley 5 times, Thistle 3 times). Between them both clubs defeated League opposition 23 times in the Scottish cup (19 for Caley, 4 for Thistle). Caley were the first ever non-league side to hold a Premier League side in the cup when they pegged back St Johnstone to a 2-2 draw in 1992. Thistle's best ever cup result was when they beat Kilmarnock, then of the First Division, 3-0 at Kingsmills. I wonder what the highland league would be like if Caley/Thistle/Elgin/Peterhead and Ross County were still in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 I wonder what the highland league would be like if Caley/Thistle/Elgin/Peterhead and Ross County were still in it! In the twenty seasons prior to 1994, the five sides who eventually left won the Highland League twelve times, with Elgin being stripped of one title. If the sides had stayed in the division during that time then I think it's reasonable to assume that they'd have continued to succeed. It would've been interesting to see how the clubs based around the Inverness area would've coped with the Aberdeenshire clubs getting increased investment, as they seem to have had in the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBees Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thistle were in a poor financial state in 1994 and had only won the league once since the early 1970s so it's probable that they would've continued to struggle in lower mid-table positions. I believe Caley finished 2nd in the table in 1994 to Steve Paterson's Huntly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I remember Rangers (R.I.P.) beating Huntly 10-1 in the Scottish Cup around this time - was Paterson the manager at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBees Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I remember Rangers (R.I.P.) beating Huntly 10-1 in the Scottish Cup around this time - was Paterson the manager at this time. TAFKA Rangers beat Keith 10-1 in the 95/96 Scottish Cup if that's what you're thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Vale Vale Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 TAFKA Rangers beat Keith 10-1 in the 95/96 Scottish Cup if that's what you're thinking of. It was Keith, they beat us 2-0 in the 2nd round at Kynoch Park infront of the best Vale away support i have ever seen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 This is something I'm interested in but know very little about so thought I might ask a few questions. I haven't really spent much time in the area over the last few years so I don't really hear what others have to say about it. Were there many people in support of the merger? Were either set of supporters more against it than the other? Why weren't Clach included? As I understand it, they didn't apply for SFL membership while the other two did, but I thought that they too might want to get involved. Were they approached at all? Those who were opposed to it at the time, how do you feel about it now? What were crowds like in the years spent in the 4th tier, compared to those of the two clubs before the merger? For anyone who supported either team, then the merger, did it feel the same as supporting your original team? Cheers in advance to anyone who answers any of these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear no foe Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 [ Read this thread and thought I had the programme for this game but as you can see it is for a game between the two clubs from earlier that season. Not even a hint of a merger in this programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear no foe Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 This is something I'm interested in but know very little about so thought I might ask a few questions. I haven't really spent much time in the area over the last few years so I don't really hear what others have to say about it. Were there many people in support of the merger? Were either set of supporters more against it than the other? Why weren't Clach included? As I understand it, they didn't apply for SFL membership while the other two did, but I thought that they too might want to get involved. Were they approached at all? Those who were opposed to it at the time, how do you feel about it now? What were crowds like in the years spent in the 4th tier, compared to those of the two clubs before the merger? For anyone who supported either team, then the merger, did it feel the same as supporting your original team? Cheers in advance to anyone who answers any of these questions. http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/61772-caledonian-fc-thread/ The 2 links above may answer some of your questions mate, a few years ago I was kinda interested in what happened here myself. A merger is just unthinkable really, although they've no done to bad since, I would be surprised if 5% of the current ICT fans were Thistle or Caley fans back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 I was only 13 when the merger happened and wasn't raised as a fan of either side, although if I'd had to choose it would've been Caley, so I might not be the best person to answer but I'll give what I think about your questions AFCA. Were there many people in support of the merger? Were either set of supporters more against it than the other? There was opposition from both sides but for different reasons - Caley fans who opposed the merger thought that they could go it alone in the SFL whereas Thistle fans were worried that it wouldn't be a merger so much as a takeover. Both clubs were members clubs where if you bought a season ticket you got a vote and both clubs members / season ticket holders backed the merger when votes were taken. Anti-merger fans alleged that the meetings were packed out with friendly faces by the Committee to ensure that it got through but nevertheless, the vote was pro-merger. Edited to add - the results of the votes were Caley vote 1 - 09/09/1993 - 55-50 in favour of merger Thistle vote 1 - 09/09/1993 - 33-12 in favour of merger Caley vote 2 - 01/12/1993 - 250-226 in favour of merger. Why weren't Clach included? As I understand it, they didn't apply for SFL membership while the other two did, but I thought that they too might want to get involved. Were they approached at all? Clach had very nearly gone out of business in the early 90s (in fact I think they did technically go out fo business and the current Clach is a newco) and they decided that they weren't willing to be subsumed into the merger. If Thistle were worried about being taken over then Clach almost certainly would have been. Those who were opposed to it at the time, how do you feel about it now? I can't speak for other people but I doubt many have returned. Apparently some have snuck back, taking their kids to games but there are plenty who'll never go back. What were crowds like in the years spent in the 4th tier, compared to those of the two clubs before the merger? I'm not sure what the official averages were for Caley and Thistle pre-merger but what I've been told they were around 6-800 for Caley and maybe half that for Thistle. This obviously fluctuated depending on the teams form. the final Caley v Thistle derby had a crowd of 1,000. For cup games against league clubs Caley could draw in big crowds of 3-4,000 and big league games against the likes of Elgin or Ross County could get crowds of around 2,0000. I don't have our averages in Division three to hand but I think we generally drew around 1500 fans for most games. Derby games and cup ties against opposition from higher in the leagues drew more than that. I'm sure Charle Bannerman has said on the Caley forum that the merger club has always averaged higher crwods than the combined total of Caley and Thistle. For anyone who supported either team, then the merger, did it feel the same as supporting your original team? I can't answer that. I think the people who continued going just treated it like a continuation of their team - certainly the Caley fans I know who continued did. When I was younger it was closer to the merger and it was a bit fresher but so manyof the people involved in the club, especially in the early days were old Caley fans - just about everyone involved in the supporters club, the webmasters of the first fans site and official website, the head of the Supporters Trust, all were fans of Caledonian. There used to be a bit of needle, I remember Jim Calder (ex-Thitle keeper who was pretty much the only Jaggie who stayed and played forICT post merger) getting a bit of stick when playing in front of the Howden End and when Telford Street (Caleys old ground where we played for the first two seasons in the SFL) was refurbished for the move into the leagues all the terracing sleepers were painted blue and white, Caley colours, with red and black kept for the toilets. The one thing that really pushed the club past this was having Steve Paterson as manager - he created his own team, a group that was new rather than harking back to the old clubs and also brought us success. The rivalries with County and, to a lesser extent, Livingston also helped bond the club together as went up the divisions. Now you have the situation where a significant number of our fans just don't know or care about these things. If you are a 21 year old Caley fan now this is literally a different lifetime and irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 That's great, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBees Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I've just realised from the video above that the postie who collects mail from our office at the end of each day was one of the Thistle fans interviewed at the end of last derby match. Nice guy too, I never knew. Had to turn off when Charlie Christie came on the screen though. Eugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I've said this before, but I always thought Caley could have gone on their own, although I think the driving force behind it all was the Inverness Thistle chairman - was he not one of the leading lights of the SFA and had a lot of contacts with those who mattered? Probably explains the reasoning behind a merger, Thistle were too "weak" financially and probably playing wise to apply on their own, whereas Caley didn't have the "clout" with the Scottish League to apply on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBees Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I've said this before, but I always thought Caley could have gone on their own, although I think the driving force behind it all was the Inverness Thistle chairman - was he not one of the leading lights of the SFA and had a lot of contacts with those who mattered? Probably explains the reasoning behind a merger, Thistle were too "weak" financially and probably playing wise to apply on their own, whereas Caley didn't have the "clout" with the Scottish League to apply on their own. Thistle chairman Jock MacDonald had more than a hint of Mafioso about him. As you say, he had very strong links with SFA. Was well known to not spend any money whatsoever on his club though. Pretty sure the main stand at ICT's ground is named after him, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Vale Vale Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 20 years ago Buckie Thistle never had any fans. Fort William beat us 2-0. And Huntly had the support Buckie have now. How things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I've heard it said that the issues of the merger prettymuch faded from view, because of how much the club changed from what either Caledonian or Thistle had been in little over half a decade. New stadium, professional squad recruited outwith the area, large increase in crowds with people who'd never attended either, reaching SFL1 then SPL. Does that simplistic assessment hold true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Shaker Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 That the merged club turned out to be a success stopped a lot of people from badmouthing it and left them simply ignoring it. Said merged club was summed up for me when I was passing their ground and they'd a big advertising hoarding up saying 'See Celtic and Rangers play here'. Sounded then like they'd given up attracting locals to watch the team itself and were relying on folk coming out to watch the then Old Firm sides appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveC Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 On the 14th May 1994 Inverness Thistle and Caldonian played their last official games as separate clubs. Caley drew 1-1 with that years Highland League champions Huntly at Christie Park. Inverness Thistle lost 2-0 to Lossiemouth at Kingsmills Park. Between them the two clubs won the Highland League title 26 times (18 for Caley, 8 for Thistle), the North of Scotland cup 33 times (20 for Caley, 13 for Thistle), the old Qualifying Cup 18 times (13 times Caley, 5 times Thistle) and the Highland League Cup 8 times (Caley 5 times, Thistle 3 times). Between them both clubs defeated League opposition 23 times in the Scottish cup (19 for Caley, 4 for Thistle). Caley were the first ever non-league side to hold a Premier League side in the cup when they pegged back St Johnstone to a 2-2 draw in 1992. Thistle's best ever cup result was when they beat Kilmarnock, then of the First Division, 3-0 at Kingsmills. Think I played in that game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRS Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Think I played in that game? Which game are you referring to??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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