HarleyQuinn Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said: This comes back to the question of why would you have expected any to have such a record? The natural competitors for Aberdeen in terms of resources have all had spells as bad as anything seen for a generation, while Aberdeen could just plough on building their squad with a settled management structure, European football etc. I'm not sure who would have been expected to build a winning record against Aberdeen in that time. For context, if you had given Jimmy Calderwood the kind of Rangers, Hearts ,and Hibs situation that McInnes got, Aberdeen would have been the best team other than Celtic in the league every year from 2005 - 2009. Instead their high-point was one third-place finish in that spell. Context matters. It's not his fault, and he didn't choose it. But the cards fell kindly for McInnes at Aberdeen. I'd also throw in the small matter of reaching the last 32 of the UEFA cup. A feat your club didn't achieve during that time nor ever has. Also Jimmy Calderwood wasn't backed the following season after finishing third which led to a lot of frustration amongst the dons support. Also during that Period Hearts would spending beyond their means under Romanov - busy finishing 2nd. I'll remind you once more, when The Rangers and Hearts respectively collapsed, Hibs and Dundee Utd (two sides that were direct rivals to Aberdeen throughout the 00's) were in the exact same position as Aberdeen. The difference was we finally appointed a competent manager who described Aberdeen FC as living in the prehistoric age when referring to training facilities, coaching, sports nutrition, scouting etc. Hibs and Hearts fans are absolutely gutted and bitter as all hell for what has transpired over the past 8 seasons. It essentially rectified a few wrongs in the 00's. With the added bonus of both Edinburgh clubs being relegated. Something Aberdeen have never endured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheJTS98 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said: I'd also throw in the small matter of reaching the last 32 of the UEFA cup. A feat your club didn't achieve during that time nor ever has. Also Jimmy Calderwood wasn't backed the following season after finishing third which led to a lot of frustration amongst the dons support. Also during that Period Hearts would spending beyond their means under Romanov - busy finishing 2nd. I'll remind you once more, when The Rangers and Hearts respectively collapsed, Hibs and Dundee Utd (two sides that were direct rivals to Aberdeen throughout the 00's) were in the exact same position as Aberdeen. The difference was we finally appointed a competent manager who described Aberdeen FC as living in the prehistoric age when referring to training facilities, coaching, sports nutrition, scouting etc. Hibs and Hearts fans are absolutely gutted and bitter as all hell for what has transpired over the past 8 seasons. It essentially rectified a few wrongs in the 00's. With the added bonus of both Edinburgh clubs being relegated. Something Aberdeen have never endured. I edited to add that. And Hearts have in fact reached the last 8 of the UEFA Cup, so pull your socks up on your details there. Not sure why you're taking such an aggressive tone, to be honest. Tends not to be much fun talking to people who reach for 'bitter' and 'gutted' and don't take time to get their facts straight. Good day to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: You misunderstand me though on my first point. I meant the record as a whole over the last 7 years. There's no team in the SPL outside the OF that has a positive win/loss record against Aberdeen since McInnes was appointed. (Probably Motherwell come closest but I suspect our record against them is marginally better over 7 years). Ah right, well there is almost certainly no side with a worse record against you than ours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubo_blaha Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 This comes back to the question of why would you have expected any to have such a record? The natural competitors for Aberdeen in terms of resources have all had spells as bad as anything seen for a generation, while Aberdeen could just plough on building their squad with a settled management structure, European football etc. I'm not sure who would have been expected to build a winning record against Aberdeen in that time. For context, if you had given Jimmy Calderwood the kind of Rangers, Hearts ,and Hibs situation that McInnes got, Aberdeen would have been the best team other than Celtic in the league every year from 2005 - 2009. Instead their high-point was one third-place finish in that spell. If he'd had that, allied to a post-Christmas run in Europe, it would be hard to argue McInnes was better than him. But Calderwood didn't get those circumstances. He had it harder. Context matters. It's not his fault, and he didn't choose it. But the cards fell kindly for McInnes at Aberdeen.Calderwood also had a much easier route to into the European group stages than McInnes ever did and we were quite fortunate to qualify from that group with 4 points from 4 games. Getting past Dnipro was probably equivalent to Rijeka or Groningen, although our poor coefficient meant we had another two rounds to get through after those. As you say, context matters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said: Calderwood also had a much easier route to into the European group stages than McInnes ever did and we were quite fortunate to qualify from that group with 4 points from 4 games. Getting past Dnipro was probably equivalent to Rijeka or Groningen, although our poor coefficient meant we had another two rounds to get through after those. As you say, context matters. I was in Dnipro and Rijeka (alas not Groningen although I watched it on TV) and the Dnipro match was some effort. It was a full house and tasty atmosphere. Considering the squad of players we had at the time, that was, imo, Aberdeen's finest post-Fergie away European result. However, Calderwood was fortunate in the groups that three teams qualified but that's not to discount the fine dismantling of Copenhagen and squaring up to Bayern Munich in the home leg in the last 32. Having said that, Rijeka was a great night and unexpected victory in both its manner and comfort. I don't recall any stirring home European matches under McInnes. He never seemed to learn to use the home advantage sufficiently in Europe. His record wasn't particularly bad with regards home defeats (Real Sociedad and Rijeka second time around) but we seemed to struggle to really test defences at home (such as Skendija, Groningen, Kairat, Maribor, Burnley, Rijeka second time). I actually felt, once we equalised against Burnley, that the tie was ours to lose. They were walking a tightrope and another goal from would have killed it. However, the conservative approach which marred the second half of his tenure, really prevented us going for the Burnley throat. I think both in Europe and domestically, McInnes and the support will look back ruefully and consider what might have been. We just couldn't push on that little bit further... Edited March 9, 2021 by Bogbrush1903 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 30 minutes ago, Rodhull said: So you're saying 1 goal in 9 is to be expected with the squad we have? What about last season where we went the best part of 6 games without scoring even with those 3 players? This is over 8 years, mind - how many coaches go 8 years without the occasional bad run? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said: Calderwood also had a much easier route to into the European group stages than McInnes ever did and we were quite fortunate to qualify from that group with 4 points from 4 games. Getting past Dnipro was probably equivalent to Rijeka or Groningen, although our poor coefficient meant we had another two rounds to get through after those. As you say, context matters. Dnipro betters any of McInnes' results IMO. McInnes was a far better manager in almost every measureable metric. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, paranoid android said: This is over 8 years, mind - how many coaches go 8 years without the occasional bad run? They're no longer occasional though. They were every season and the only way out of it was becoming hard to beat with direct, inefficient football. No matter the opposition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruthenight Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 33 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Ah right, well there is almost certainly no side with a worse record against you than ours. We've only been in the league for 3 years, but Livi must be close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said: Having said that, Rijeka was a great night and unexpected victory in both its manner and comfort. I don't recall any stirring home European matches under McInnes. He never seemed to learn to use the home advantage sufficiently in Europe. His record wasn't particularly bad with regards home defeats (Real Sociedad and Rijeka second time around) but we seemed to struggle to really test defences at home (such as Skendija, Groningen, Kairat, Maribor, Burnley, Rijeka second time). I actually felt, once we equalised against Burnley, that the tie was ours to lose. They were walking a tightrope and another goal from would have killed it. However, the conservative approach which marred the second half of his tenure, really prevented us going for the Burnley throat. I think both in Europe and domestically, McInnes and the support will look back ruefully and consider what might have been. We just couldn't push on that little bit further... Yep, it's been mentioned a few times on here by fans of other clubs that McInnes took us into Europe for seven successive seasons. It's not to be sniffed at, but there was never any progress, season after season, beyond the qualifiers. Qualifying for Europe became an end in itself, regardless of results in the competition or progress made. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said: Qualifying for Europe became an end in itself, regardless of results in the competition or progress made. I think this is very good summation. You would occasionally hear that a player had signed to play European football. I would think, "well I hope not because we'll be out by the start to mid August". I don't think it ever crossed my mind that we would reach the play-off round let alone the group stages. That may well continue or we may do better or worse with McInnes in charge but if Cormack has designs on being a Top 100 European club then we'll need to improve, and the evidence had shown that it looked beyond the capabilities of an Aberdeen team guided by Derek McInnes... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: They're no longer occasional though. They were every season and the only way out of it was becoming hard to beat with direct, inefficient football. No matter the opposition. Fair enough. Wonder what Roy Aitken's up to these days. Edited March 9, 2021 by paranoid android 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said: With the added bonus of both Edinburgh clubs being relegated. Something Aberdeen have never endured. While what you say here is technically true, it's a bit of a brass neck to claim this as an achievement given the events of the 99/00 season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Just now, AJF said: While what you say here is technically true, it's a bit of a brass neck to claim this as an achievement given the events of the 99/00 season. True, but we still would have needed to take part in Schrodinger's play-off at the end of that season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said: True, but we still would have needed to take part in Schrodinger's play-off at the end of that season. We had a not bad cup record that season too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 22 minutes ago, AJF said: While what you say here is technically true, it's a bit of a brass neck to claim this as an achievement given the events of the 99/00 season. Events of 2012. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said: Events of 2012. I'm not sure of the relevance of your post regarding Aberdeen's situation in 99/00? In what way is it hypocritical of me to point out they avoided a relegation play-off through a technicality? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 32 minutes ago, AJF said: While what you say here is technically true, it's a bit of a brass neck to claim this as an achievement given the events of the 99/00 season. 3 minutes ago, AJF said: I'm not sure of the relevance of your post regarding Aberdeen's situation in 99/00? In what way is it hypocritical of me to point out they avoided a relegation play-off through a technicality? I think it’s the fact of a Rangers fan claiming other fans have a brass neck for claiming something (alleged to be) due to a technicality, whilst simultaneously claiming the history of a defunct business which was awarded to a new start up by the authorities. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 14 hours ago, HibsFan said: Oh how I wish that was true, but Aberdeen have finished in the relegation zone twice in their history and yet somehow have not suffered either deserved relegation. There's no 'somehow' about it. We have NEVER finished in an automatic relegation position. Twice we finished in a play-off position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, coprolite said: I think it’s the fact of a Rangers fan claiming other fans have a brass neck for claiming something (alleged to be) due to a technicality, whilst simultaneously claiming the history of a defunct business which was awarded to a new start up by the authorities. Ah, I see. If that's the angle they were going for there, fair play. It wasn't obvious to me. I thought it had some relevance to relegation somehow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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