The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[AndyM]

2 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Hearts and Hibs fans in particular who think that Aberdeen will now revert back to the days of the 00's are grossly deluded. We have the infrastructure and backing of the board that any competent manager should be finishing third with the resources at Aberdeen. McInnes time was sadly coming to an end. Its time for a new era. Hopefully one with more trophies being added to the history records. 

 

As a Hibs fan I don't think Aberdeen will revert to the days of the early 90s at all. As you say Aberdeen have an infrastructure in place now much like Hibs and Hearts do in terms of Training Centre and Youth Academies.  You have also had your historical debt written off.

But lets be clear you do pay substantially more in salaries than Hibs or Hearts do thanks to money from your US backers.  Your current wages to turnover ratio is over 90% and that will have to be addressed as it is not sustainable. Where Hibs or Hearts are paying 3-6k a week (Hearts probably less just now in the Championship) for a 1st team player, you are up in the 5-8k  bracket and you have regularly outbid Hibs for players. 

Both Aberdeen and Hibs will likely be in Europe next year (realistically in the Europa Conference League groups)  and that will bring in much needed revenue. With a manager who doesn't play with the handbrake on like McInnes you could do very well both in the league and in terms of picking up European football cash.

[kingjoey]

1 hour ago, TheJTS98 said:

Absolutely none of this is relevant to the point that circumstances fell into McIness' lap. Who is to blame makes no difference to the facts on the ground. Those facts being that Aberdeen had three of their biggest-spending rivals removed and weakened.

For example, 2014-15 Aberdeen had the biggest top-flight average crowds outside Celtic. The next best-attended club had approximately 50% smaller crowds than Aberdeen. Adding together the crowds of the three teams who finished immediately behind Aberdeen just about got to Aberdeen's crowds.

Given a bit of time, that's a situation you'd expect success from.

I should think the next Aberdeen coach would be delighted were the circumstances of 2012-14 to be repeated.

You’re right, of course. In fact Derek McInnes should have voluntarily asked for Aberdeen to be relegated so that he could really have found out how good he was by going up against the giants of Hearts, Hibs and Rangers in the Championship. Oh wait, he did that in 2017/18 in the Premiership and finished above them all.

Derek McInnes has come up against Hearts and/or Hibs in six of his seasons at Aberdeen and neither one of them has EVER finished ahead of Aberdeen. 

[Guest TheJTS98]

3 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

You’re right, of course. In fact Derek McInnes should have voluntarily asked for Aberdeen to be relegated so that he could really have found out how good he was by going up against the giants of Hearts, Hibs and Rangers in the Championship. Oh wait, he did that in 2017/18 in the Premiership and finished above them all.

Derek McInnes has come up against Hearts and/or Hibs in six of his seasons at Aberdeen and neither one of them has EVER finished ahead of Aberdeen. 

Yes, he finished above them all after they'd all gone through a variety of messes while Aberdeen had cruised through in relative stability.

I'm all for the entertainment value of watching people try to argue that Hearts, Hibs, and Rangers all having their own disasters around the time DM got the job somehow did not help him.

It's a funny thing with football fans. I'm not even suggesting he did a bad job. Just that circumstances were kind to him. It's beyond dispute that that is the case.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

I think fans of other clubs...especially those that see us as rivals for 3rd place.....are quite relieved and happy that McInnes has left. There's no club in the SPL outside the OF  (aside from probably Motherwell) that has come close to bettering us over the last 7 years. 

We also have a better record than any other club against Rangers since they got back into the top league. 

No wonder that there's a bit of surprise and delight that we've booted McInnes. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

48 minutes ago, AndyM said:

As a Hibs fan I don't think Aberdeen will revert to the days of the early 90s at all. As you say Aberdeen have an infrastructure in place now much like Hibs and Hearts do in terms of Training Centre and Youth Academies.  You have also had your historical debt written off.

But lets be clear you do pay substantially more in salaries than Hibs or Hearts do thanks to money from your US backers.  Your current wages to turnover ratio is over 90% and that will have to be addressed as it is not sustainable. Where Hibs or Hearts are paying 3-6k a week (Hearts probably less just now in the Championship) for a 1st team player, you are up in the 5-8k  bracket and you have regularly outbid Hibs for players. 

Both Aberdeen and Hibs will likely be in Europe next year (realistically in the Europa Conference League groups)  and that will bring in much needed revenue. With a manager who doesn't play with the handbrake on like McInnes you could do very well both in the league and in terms of picking up European football cash.

Lots of made up stuff in there straight from the experts on hibs.net. 

Have you got any proof of your various wages claims ? That's the sort of stuff that Hibs and Hearts fans love to bandy around, simply because we generally have a better team than you. 

I'd love to know where you got this information, because I've seen nothing, anywhere that suggests the wages to turnover ratio at Pittodrie is 90% (I know a few years ago we were down at around 50%), and I've also no idea at all what we pay players in wages and I suspect neither do you. 

We also don't have 'US backers'.  This is absolute nonsense. 

I'm also sick of the 'playing with the handbrake on' nonsense bandied around. That's also utter garbage. Have a look at McInnes's record with Aberdeen over the last 7 years.....we've generally been 3rd top scorers in the league (sometimes 2nd top scorers) in all of these seasons. This season and parts of last have been a bit pish, but the perception that McInnes is a 'negative' manager is bollox. 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Bob Mahelp

[coprolite]

10 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Lots of made up stuff in there straight from the experts on hibs.net. 

Have you got any proof of your various wages claims ? That's the sort of stuff that Hibs and Hearts fans love to bandy around, simply because we generally have a better team than you. 

I'd love to know where you got this information, because I've seen nothing, anywhere that suggests the wages to turnover ratio at Pittodrie is 90% (I know a few years ago we were down at around 50%), and I've also no idea at all what we pay players in wages and I suspect neither do you. 

We also don't have 'US backers'.  This is absolute nonsense. 

I'm also sick of the 'playing with the handbrake on' nonsense bandied around. That's also utter garbage. Have a look at McInnes's record with Aberdeen over the last 7 years.....we've generally been 3rd top scorers in the league (sometimes 2nd top scorers) in all of these seasons. This season and parts of last have been a bit pish, but the perception that McInnes is a 'negative' manager is bollox. 

 

 

From the annual report:

"Wages increased from £9.238 million to £9.770 million as we maintained our investment in the playing squad. We

had ended-up with five players on loan from English clubs during season 2018/19, which made it difficult to achieve

any continuity in the playing squad. We believed that we had addressed that situation by basing our squad building

for season 2019/20 around permanent contracts on longer terms, but injuries meant loan players were still required.

The wages to turnover ratio increased from 58% to 68% as the Club maintained the First Team squad budget but is

still within accepted industry norms and compares favourably to many other clubs. Note that this was achieved on

much lower revenues reduced by the effects of coronavirus."

I can't see that hibs have published their accounts , they certainly haven't filed them. 

Hearts didn't disclose the ratio but i make theirs 68% also. 

These are season 2019/2020 figures so will be way higher for this year for all clubs. 

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, AndyM said:

As a Hibs fan I don't think Aberdeen will revert to the days of the early 90s at all. As you say Aberdeen have an infrastructure in place now much like Hibs and Hearts do in terms of Training Centre and Youth Academies.  You have also had your historical debt written off.

But lets be clear you do pay substantially more in salaries than Hibs or Hearts do thanks to money from your US backers.  Your current wages to turnover ratio is over 90% and that will have to be addressed as it is not sustainable. Where Hibs or Hearts are paying 3-6k a week (Hearts probably less just now in the Championship) for a 1st team player, you are up in the 5-8k  bracket and you have regularly outbid Hibs for players. 

Both Aberdeen and Hibs will likely be in Europe next year (realistically in the Europa Conference League groups)  and that will bring in much needed revenue. With a manager who doesn't play with the handbrake on like McInnes you could do very well both in the league and in terms of picking up European football cash.

The 'American investment' was for the new training facilities. We can pay as much wages as we do due to the amount of corporate tickets etc that we sell.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

From the annual report:

"Wages increased from £9.238 million to £9.770 million as we maintained our investment in the playing squad. We

had ended-up with five players on loan from English clubs during season 2018/19, which made it difficult to achieve

any continuity in the playing squad. We believed that we had addressed that situation by basing our squad building

for season 2019/20 around permanent contracts on longer terms, but injuries meant loan players were still required.

The wages to turnover ratio increased from 58% to 68% as the Club maintained the First Team squad budget but is

still within accepted industry norms and compares favourably to many other clubs. Note that this was achieved on

much lower revenues reduced by the effects of coronavirus."

I can't see that hibs have published their accounts , they certainly haven't filed them. 

Hearts didn't disclose the ratio but i make theirs 68% also. 

These are season 2019/2020 figures so will be way higher for this year for all clubs. 

Cheers.

So nowhere near this 90% nonsense that had been quoted above. 

[Golden Gordon]

12 hours ago, HalfCutNinja said:

At every level of the game the world over the team that spends most (transfers and wages combined) finishes first.

The team that spends the second most, finishes, can you guess............second!

The team that spend the third most.....are you getting the idea yet?

To be fair, there are exceptions to this rule.  Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd. spending time in the Championship, despite having arguably similar budgets to Aberdeen.  Hamilton remaining in the Premiership for a sustained period despite having a very limited budget, St. Mirren  currently being in the top six & Livingston even being in the top division is fairly impressive, never mind looking on track to finish either fourth or fifth.

It might be the case that Aberdeen struggle following McInnes' departure, but that would make the above argument even more questionable.  McInnes kept Aberdeen consistent during his tenure at the club.  This was his greatest strength, which became his greatest weakness, as he was not able to sustain this level consistency over the past couple of seasons, hence the Board made the decision to part ways.   

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, AndyM said:

As a Hibs fan I don't think Aberdeen will revert to the days of the early 90s at all. As you say Aberdeen have an infrastructure in place now much like Hibs and Hearts do in terms of Training Centre and Youth Academies.  You have also had your historical debt written off.

But lets be clear you do pay substantially more in salaries than Hibs or Hearts do thanks to money from your US backers.  Your current wages to turnover ratio is over 90% and that will have to be addressed as it is not sustainable. Where Hibs or Hearts are paying 3-6k a week (Hearts probably less just now in the Championship) for a 1st team player, you are up in the 5-8k  bracket and you have regularly outbid Hibs for players. 

Both Aberdeen and Hibs will likely be in Europe next year (realistically in the Europa Conference League groups)  and that will bring in much needed revenue. With a manager who doesn't play with the handbrake on like McInnes you could do very well both in the league and in terms of picking up European football cash.

 

Aberdeen offered Ross McCrorie the same exact wage and offer as Hibs. He choice to sign for Aberdeen. Both McInnes and McCrorie commented on this when he was unveiled at Cormack Park. Same applies to Curtis Main when he choice us over Hearts. Remember Hearts offered Boyce 6k a week in order to outbid us last January. This January, GMS was offered his salary in full whereas Aberdeen offered him a deal to defer his wages until the summer - both clubs offered him the same compensation package however. 

Prior to Covid, our annual turnover was nearly double that of Hibs. Even ignoring the corporate ticket sales, Aberdeen commercially do considerably better then both Edinburgh clubs. We sell tens of thousands more replica shirts each season (and all club shop merchandise) then both Hibs and Hearts - we sell more then some EPL side's such as Burnley. Where we do fall short is obviously our season ticket sales. Along with the replica shirt sales we also have a larger social media presence (numbers) then both Edinburgh sides which indicates we have the fanbase to compete with their average attendances. The 43,000 fans in attendance at our most league cup final win further backs this point. Aberdeen requested 50k tickets for the league cup final due to demand. Cormack believes decreasing the stadium capacity to 18k will help generate demand and subsequently increase season ticket sales/average attendances.

We have to change stadiums and ultimately win cups to attract larger crowds. After Hibs won the league cup under John Collins, their season ticket sales increased by 4k the following season.

 

[Aberdeen Cowden]

26 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

 

Aberdeen offered Ross McCrorie the same exact wage and offer as Hibs. He choice to sign for Aberdeen. Both McInnes and McCrorie commented on this when he was unveiled at Cormack Park. Same applies to Curtis Main when he choice us over Hearts. Remember Hearts offered Boyce 6k a week in order to outbid us last January. This January, GMS was offered his salary in full whereas Aberdeen offered him a deal to defer his wages until the summer - both clubs offered him the same compensation package however. 

Prior to Covid, our annual turnover was nearly double that of Hibs. Even ignoring the corporate ticket sales, Aberdeen commercially do considerably better then both Edinburgh clubs. We sell tens of thousands more replica shirts each season (and all club shop merchandise) then both Hibs and Hearts - we sell more then some EPL side's such as Burnley. Where we do fall short is obviously our season ticket sales. Along with the replica shirt sales we also have a larger social media presence (numbers) then both Edinburgh sides which indicates we have the fanbase to compete with their average attendances. The 43,000 fans in attendance at our most league cup final win further backs this point. Aberdeen requested 50k tickets for the league cup final due to demand. Cormack believes decreasing the stadium capacity to 18k will help generate demand and subsequently increase season ticket sales/average attendances.

We have to change stadiums and ultimately win cups to attract larger crowds. After Hibs won the league cup under John Collins, their season ticket sales increased by 4k the following season.

 

The rumoured new stadium would be a game changer for Aberdeen. And I don’t mean the Kingsford nonsense.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I think fans of other clubs...especially those that see us as rivals for 3rd place.....are quite relieved and happy that McInnes has left. There's no club in the SPL outside the OF  (aside from probably Motherwell) that has come close to bettering us over the last 7 years. 

We also have a better record than any other club against Rangers since they got back into the top league. 

No wonder that there's a bit of surprise and delight that we've booted McInnes. 

Killie finished above you in 2018/19 - surely that counts as bettering you?

And the second point is also false, because we also have a better record against Rangers in that period. In the league, Aberdeen are P18 W3 D4 L11 and Killie are P17 W5 D5 L7 . Even if you extend that to all competitions, it's P21 W5 D5 L11 for Aberdeen and P20 W5 D6 L9 for Killie.

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Killie finished above you in 2018/19 - surely that counts as bettering you?

It was a moral victory for us, IMO. And GD doesn't count. IMO.

[HarleyQuinn]

16 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

The rumoured new stadium would be a game changer for Aberdeen. And I don’t mean the Kingsford nonsense.

The New stadium proposal by the City council would make much more sense for virtually every reason known to man. Supposedly it would cost 70 million.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

16 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Killie finished above you in 2018/19 - surely that counts as bettering you?

And the second point is also false, because we also have a better record against Rangers in that period. In the league, Aberdeen are P18 W3 D4 L11 and Killie are P17 W5 D5 L7 . Even if you extend that to all competitions, it's P21 W5 D5 L11 for Aberdeen and P20 W5 D6 L9 for Killie.

Sorry about the 2nd point, I was just posting something that I remember reading a year or so ago. I stand corrected. 

You misunderstand me though on my first point. I meant the record as a whole over the last 7 years. There's no team in the SPL outside the OF that has a positive win/loss record against Aberdeen since McInnes was appointed. (Probably Motherwell come closest but I suspect our record against them is marginally better over 7 years).

 

[Guest TheJTS98]

14 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

You misunderstand me though on my first point. I meant the record as a whole over the last 7 years. There's no team in the SPL outside the OF that has a positive win/loss record against Aberdeen since McInnes was appointed. (Probably Motherwell come closest but I suspect our record against them is marginally better over 7 years).

This comes back to the question of why would you have expected any to have such a record?

The natural competitors for Aberdeen in terms of resources have all had spells as bad as anything seen for a generation, while Aberdeen could just plough on building their squad with a settled management structure, European football etc. I'm not sure who would have been expected to build a winning record against Aberdeen in that time.

For context, if you had given Jimmy Calderwood the kind of Rangers, Hearts ,and Hibs situation that McInnes got, Aberdeen would have been the best team other than Celtic in the league every year from 2005 - 2009. Instead their high-point was one third-place finish in that spell. If he'd had that, allied to a post-Christmas run in Europe, it would be hard to argue McInnes was better than him. But Calderwood didn't get those circumstances. He had it harder.

Context matters. It's not his fault, and he didn't choose it. But the cards fell kindly for McInnes at Aberdeen.

Edited March 9, 2021 by TheJTS98

[paranoid android]

3 hours ago, CCB19035 said:

1 goal in 9. 
 

 Failed to score in 42% of games this season.

 

Both with the third biggest budget in the league and close to millions wasted on players in the last few years. 
 

But aye, sheer boredom. 

And this season you've sold McKenna, Cosgrove, and Wright for decent cash - in previous seasons, you've lost Shinnie, Hayes, Jack, McGinn, and McLean - all big players to lose.

[lubo_blaha]

As a Hibs fan I don't think Aberdeen will revert to the days of the early 90s at all. As you say Aberdeen have an infrastructure in place now much like Hibs and Hearts do in terms of Training Centre and Youth Academies.  You have also had your historical debt written off.
But lets be clear you do pay substantially more in salaries than Hibs or Hearts do thanks to money from your US backers.  Your current wages to turnover ratio is over 90% and that will have to be addressed as it is not sustainable. Where Hibs or Hearts are paying 3-6k a week (Hearts probably less just now in the Championship) for a 1st team player, you are up in the 5-8k  bracket and you have regularly outbid Hibs for players. 
Both Aberdeen and Hibs will likely be in Europe next year (realistically in the Europa Conference League groups)  and that will bring in much needed revenue. With a manager who doesn't play with the handbrake on like McInnes you could do very well both in the league and in terms of picking up European football cash.

Those figures are not accurate at all.

[Bogbrush1903]

4 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

Absolutely none of this is relevant to the point that circumstances fell into McIness' lap. Who is to blame makes no difference to the facts on the ground. Those facts being that Aberdeen had three of their biggest-spending rivals removed and weakened.

For example, 2014-15 Aberdeen had the biggest top-flight average crowds outside Celtic. The next best-attended club had approximately 50% smaller crowds than Aberdeen. Adding together the crowds of the three teams who finished immediately behind Aberdeen just about got to Aberdeen's crowds.

Given a bit of time, that's a situation you'd expect success from.

I should think the next Aberdeen coach would be delighted were the circumstances of 2012-14 to be repeated.

It should be also noted that the £12 million debt that hampered his predecessors was paid off in 2014 by Willie and Elaine Donald. Therefore, not only was the competition diluted during the early McInnes years but the club was on a financially sounder footing...

[Rodhull]

2 minutes ago, paranoid android said:

And this season you've sold McKenna, Cosgrove, and Wright for decent cash - in previous seasons, you've lost Shinnie, Hayes, Jack, McGinn, and McLean - all big players to lose.

So you're saying 1 goal in 9 is to be expected with the squad we have?

What about last season where we went the best part of 6 games without scoring even with those 3 players?