The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Kyle Reese said:

Come now... do you really believe this?

It'll be true if they have the big games to play.

I know a lot folk bought a season ticket for Saints this season as they knew the East Stand sells out in hours for European games and they didn't want to miss out, whereas usually they wouldn't bother as it's never happening for a league game really.

[gannonball]

If the blueprints include for potential expansion I don’t think it’s the worst idea in the world. You can incentivise those those not going to a game to offer their seat back to the club like other clubs do.

[Kyle Reese]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It'll be true if they have the big games to play.

I know a lot folk bought a season ticket for Saints this season as they knew the East Stand sells out in hours for European games and they didn't want to miss out, whereas usually they wouldn't bother as it's never happening for a league game really.

I suppose. It all just seems a bit backwards to me tbh. If you are building a new stadium, whilst hoping to grow your season ticket numbers, then surely you hope to see attendances rise over the coming seasons? If you do, then you provide the space for that to happen. Infrastructure projects the scale of multi million pound new stadia, are not the sort of thing you embark upon every couple of years. There should always be a reasonable projection of where you intend to be upon complettion. If they get to the 15k mark, in a 16/17k stadium, then it's not really leaving a lot of room for future growth. I don't know, maybe you guys are right, it just seems a bit wonky to me.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Kyle Reese

[lubo_blaha]

I suppose. It all just seems a bit backwards to me tbh. If you are building a new stadium, whilst hoping to grow your season ticket numbers, then surely you hope to see attendances rise over the coming seasons? If you do, then you provide the space for that to happen. Infrastructure projects the scale of multi million pound new stadia, are not the sort of thing you embark upon every couple of years. There should always be a reasonable projection of where you intend to be upon complettion. If they get to the 15k mark, in a 16/17k stadium, then it's not really leaving a lot of room for future growth. I don't know, maybe you guys are right, it just seems a bit wonky to me.
 
 

Yes, but if it’ll cost several million more to add a few thousand onto the capacity and we’re not getting near those crowd levels at present then it doesn’t make sense to spend that money, at least not initially.

This stadium will cost north of £50million and it’s not uncommon for new stadium projects to have a lower capacity in the short term and then increasing based on demand and funds available.

[johnnydun]

41 minutes ago, Fraser Fyvie said:

That's what he's saying, 30% of ST holders don't turn up. But there's no guarantee they'll all offer their ticket for resale. 

Also says the difference between a 16-17k stadium and a 20k one could be £10m+. No idea how that's the case. Sounds like shite.

I would say the regular drop in ST holders attending is with folk working offshore. They, knowing they definitely won't be able to attend, would be quite happy to re-sell.

[Bogbrush1903]

29 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

Yes, but if it’ll cost several million more to add a few thousand onto the capacity and we’re not getting near those crowd levels at present then it doesn’t make sense to spend that money, at least not initially.

This stadium will cost north of £50million and it’s not uncommon for new stadium projects to have a lower capacity in the short term and then increasing based on demand and funds available.

I can understand why we would only want a 16,000 to 17,000 seater stadium, as it's been proved really, at least in the last 30 years domestically that a capacity of that amount will be sufficient for the home support with a token amount given to the away support similar to Tynecastle.

However, for European games, the capacity of 16k/17k wouldn't cater for the home support, especially if we fulfill Cormack's expressed desire of being a Top 100 European club regularly making past August and into the group stages of European competition.

In the modern era, since McInnes led us back to the qualifying rounds of Europe, we've been officially over 17 k on six occasions:

vs Real Sociedad 17,676

vs Kairat 20,317

vs Maribor 17,105

vs Siroki Brijeg 17,067

vs Apollon 20,085

vs Burnley 20,313

Only once, against Burnley, did a big away support contribute to the attendance.

The Sociedad match we were already two goals down and pretty much out of the competition in many supporters minds by the time the second leg took place. 

Therefore, a successful Aberdeen team might find that demand exceeds capacity. I'm undecided whether that's a good thing or bad thing. I can see advantages and disadvantages from limiting the capacity to an attendance to a capacity that would be insufficient. I don't think a scramble for tickets is necessarily a disadvantage. It creates that 'golden' ticket feeling and may drive up interest when, if the game was played at Pittodrie, people would be less concerned of securing a ticket and may wait until the last minute to purchase.

*Note, Groningen was the only match during this era that the official attendance was between 16k and 17k.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Bogbrush1903

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, Fraser Fyvie said:

That's what he's saying, 30% of ST holders don't turn up. But there's no guarantee they'll all offer their ticket for resale. 

Also says the difference between a 16-17k stadium and a 20k one could be £10m+. No idea how that's the case. Sounds like shite.

Not a fan of Dave but I'm not really expecting him to confirm how unused season tickets will be used in 2025 (at the earliest).

[lubo_blaha]

I can understand why we would only want a 16,000 to 17,000 seater stadium, as it's been proved really, at least in the last 30 years domestically that a capacity of that amount will be sufficient for the home support with a token amount given to the away support similar to Tynecastle.
However, for European games, the capacity of 16k/17k wouldn't cater for the home support, especially if we fulfill Cormack's expressed desire of being a Top 100 European club regularly making past August and into the group stages of European competition.
In the modern era, since McInnes led us back to the qualifying rounds of Europe, we've been officially over 17 k on six occasions:
vs Real Sociedad 17,676
vs Kairat 20,317
vs Maribor 17,105
vs Siroki Brijeg 17,067
vs Apollon 20,085
vs Burnley 20,313
Only once, against Burnley, did a big away support contribute to the attendance.
Therefore, a successful Aberdeen team might find that demand exceeds capacity. I'm undecided whether that's a good thing or bad thing. I can see advantages and disadvantages from limiting the capacity to an attendance to a capacity that would be insufficient. I don't think a scramble for tickets is necessarily a disadvantage. It creates that 'golden' ticket feeling and may drive up interest when, if the game was played at Pittodrie, people would be less concerned of securing a ticket and may wait until the last minute to purchase.
*Note, Groningen was the only match during this era that the official attendance was between 16k and 17k.

I’d say we’d probably need to performing at a level where we’re reaching or getting close to the European group stages and having games against Celtic and Rangers which we have a good chance of winning in order to both have the funds available to increase the capacity past 17k and the demand to justify that increase.

I wouldn’t be against a having 16/17k stadium initially, built in such a way that you can add on a tier or fill in corners, and then holding off a few years to expand if the money is available and the attendances warrant it. If 20k is going to cost several million more, I don’t think it makes sense to go for that from the start when money will be tight as it is and there’s no evidence that we’ll reach that level on a regular basis.

[jamamafegan]

I think it’s a shit capacity. There are ways of building bigger grounds but still maintaining a good atmosphere for lesser games.

The minimum for UEFA cat 4 is 8k so will be fine for if we ever get to the main part of a European competition and any of the shitter Scotland games.

Except you won’t get shitter Scotland games anymore. Why send folk up to Aberdeen to a 16k stadium when it can be played at the bigger and more easily accessible Easter Road or Tynecastle? Even Rugby Park would become a better option FFS. You won’t get Scotland games in Aberdeen unless your new ground is big enough - which it doesn’t look like it will be. Embarrassing tbh.

[Jacksgranda]

I think I prefer Saints fans moaning about handballs, tbh

[Bogbrush1903]

54 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

I’d say we’d probably need to performing at a level where we’re reaching or getting close to the European group stages and having games against Celtic and Rangers which we have a good chance of winning in order to both have the funds available to increase the capacity past 17k and the demand to justify that increase.

I wouldn’t be against a having 16/17k stadium initially, built in such a way that you can add on a tier or fill in corners, and then holding off a few years to expand if the money is available and the attendances warrant it. If 20k is going to cost several million more, I don’t think it makes sense to go for that from the start when money will be tight as it is and there’s no evidence that we’ll reach that level on a regular basis.

 

It will be interesting to see if the plans include scope for increasing capacity at an undetermined point in the future. I would be surprised if the design included unfilled corners similar to the original Snake Mountain rebuild or McDiarmid with individual stands as we don't see that style much now and that wasn't the stadium design on the blueprints for Westhill.

I'm inclined to think that we won't see anything happening with regards new stadium for at least another ten years.

[DukDukGoose]

53 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

I think it’s a shit capacity. There are ways of building bigger grounds but still maintaining a good atmosphere for lesser games.
 

 

Except you won’t get shitter Scotland games anymore. Why send folk up to Aberdeen to a 16k stadium when it can be played at the bigger and more easily accessible Easter Road or Tynecastle? Even Rugby Park would become a better option FFS. You won’t get Scotland games in Aberdeen unless your new ground is big enough - which it doesn’t look like it will be. Embarrassing tbh.

 

Building a bigger ground usually costs more money.

[jamamafegan]

Building a bigger ground usually costs more money.

Obviously but, correct me if I’m wrong, when the new stadium at Kingsford was initially announced years ago it was to have 21k. Then it went down to 20k. Then you decided to build at the beach and it went down to 18k. Now it’s down to 16k! If Aberdeen build a 16k ground and start doing well, folk will be calling for an expansion. And knowing Scottish football, it would probably be decades until any expansion was complete - by which time it wouldn’t be surprising if Aberdeen had slumped and actually didn’t need the expansion anymore.

I’ve said it time and time again. You would be far better building a ground with two tiers. This gives you the best of both worlds. A big stadium fit for a club of Aberdeens size. If the crowds are shite, no bother, close the upper tier and drape banners over them. Pack everyone into the lower tier to maintain a good atmosphere. Big game in Europe - open the tiers.

[lubo_blaha]

I think it’s a shit capacity. There are ways of building bigger grounds but still maintaining a good atmosphere for lesser games.




Except you won’t get shitter Scotland games anymore. Why send folk up to Aberdeen to a 16k stadium when it can be played at the bigger and more easily accessible Easter Road or Tynecastle? Even Rugby Park would become a better option FFS. You won’t get Scotland games in Aberdeen unless your new ground is big enough - which it doesn’t look like it will be. Embarrassing tbh.

International friendlies barely even exist anymore. All qualifiers and nations league games will be played at Hampden and even if we end up playing a friendly when we’re in a group of 5 or pre-tournament, there are two other similar sized grounds in Edinburgh which are at least just as likely to be chosen.

Anyway, we shouldn’t be making any decisions on capacity based on the fact that we might get the chance to host Scotland vs Estonia once every five years.

[lubo_blaha]

Obviously but, correct me if I’m wrong, when the new stadium at Kingsford was initially announced years ago it was to have 21k. Then it went down to 20k. Then you decided to build at the beach and it went down to 18k. Now it’s down to 16k! If Aberdeen build a 16k ground and start doing well, folk will be calling for an expansion. And knowing Scottish football, it would probably be decades until any expansion was complete - by which time it wouldn’t be surprising if Aberdeen had slumped and actually didn’t need the expansion anymore.

I’ve said it time and time again. You would be far better building a ground with two tiers. This gives you the best of both worlds. A big stadium fit for a club of Aberdeens size. If the crowds are shite, no bother, close the upper tier and drape banners over them. Pack everyone into the lower tier to maintain a good atmosphere. Big game in Europe - open the tiers.

Are you offering to pay for it like?

[DukDukGoose]

14 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 

Obviously but, correct me if I’m wrong, when the new stadium at Kingsford was initially announced years ago it was to have 21k. Then it went down to 20k. Then you decided to build at the beach and it went down to 18k. Now it’s down to 16k! If Aberdeen build a 16k ground and start doing well, folk will be calling for an expansion. And knowing Scottish football, it would probably be decades until any expansion was complete - by which time it wouldn’t be surprising if Aberdeen had slumped and actually didn’t need the expansion anymore.

I’ve said it time and time again. You would be far better building a ground with two tiers. This gives you the best of both worlds. A big stadium fit for a club of Aberdeens size. If the crowds are shite, no bother, close the upper tier and drape banners over them. Pack everyone into the lower tier to maintain a good atmosphere. Big game in Europe - open the tiers.

 

It was always going to be less than we have at Pittodrie.

Who will be calling for expansion? Fans of other teams it seems. We were 2nd in every competition in 16-17. That's about as much as you could realistically expect for a non-OF team. From what I can see online our average attendance was around 15k. The following season it stayed around the same level. 

We're going to have to be fucking brilliant to consistently sell out a 16,000 capacity stadium.

[Frank Grimes]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

I think it’s a shit capacity. There are ways of building bigger grounds but still maintaining a good atmosphere for lesser games.

I think the main drive is to encourage scarcity and therefore more regularly bigger crowds 

I haven’t bought a ST in years as I know I can generally get to any game I want 

Would need to rethink that potentially if we only had a 17,000 stadium 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Looking at the past 10 years averages I would go 18k capacity. No need for anything bigger. 

[A96]

3 hours ago, Kyle Reese said:

Hearts attendances have steadily risen since 2011/12. Season tickets generally mirror that rise, outside of major events like Covid (sales down) or administration (sales up):

https://www.fitbastats.com/hearts/club_records_league_attendance.php

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/heart-of-midlothian-fc/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/43

Our capacity has not really fluctuated that much save a few hundred here or there with stadium and pitch issues. I certainly dont remember any massive decrease, and a mirrored increase in season ticket sales as a result. If anything, since we built the new stand and increased the capacity, we have seen more season tickets sold, following the general steady annual increase.

 

I’m going back further than the last 10 years or so.  I’m going back to the Romanov era.  Over the  decade or so before he arrived the attendance for Hearts -Aberdeen league matches at Tynecastle was typically (with the odd “sore thumb” exception) about 12,000. 

In the first Romanov season , 2005-06 the crowds for the Dons two league games at Tyncastle were  about 16-17k

Im sure it was at that time that Hearts season ticket sales had a massive increase , and that part of the reason for that was the relatively low capacity of about 18k.

The key factor, of course , was that Hearts had a strong team who gave their fans genuine optimism that they could mount a serious challenge to the Arse-cheeks.  Any boost to AFC ST sales in a new stadium will be dependent upon similar optimism among the Dons fan base.

The information in that first link to Hearts average attendances in your post isn’t much help ..... the figures for each season seem to be based on a sample of only a few games.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by A96

[Kyle Reese]

8 minutes ago, A96 said:

I’m going back further than the last 10 years or so.  I’m going back to the Romanov era.  Over the  decade or so before he arrived the attendance for Hearts -Aberdeen league matches at Tynecastle was typically (with the odd “sore thumb” exception) about 12,000. 

In the first Romanov season , 2005-06 the crowds for the Dons two league games at Tyncastle were  about 16-17k

Im sure it was at that time that Hearts season ticket sales had a massive increase , and that part of the reason for that was the relatively low capacity of about 18k.

The key factor, of course , was that Hearts had a strong team who gave their fans genuine optimism that they could mount a serious challenge to the Arse-cheeks.  Any boost to AFC ST sales in a new stadium will be dependent upon similar optimism among the Dons fan base.

The information in that first link to Hearts average attendances in your post isn’t much help ..... the figures for each season seem to be based on a sample of only a few games.

 

 

I was surprised at how hard it was to find a decent resource for what we were discussing. Although a small sample, the averages are about what I remember. There doesn’t seem to be any resource for season tickets other than me Google searching the figure for each year after close of sales… we’ll see if I can be arsed doing that later. Not hopeful though!

When Romanov came in, crowds were starting to drop a bit. I remember sitting at Tynecastle and releasing black balloons, and it didn’t feel like much o we 10k. A lot of fans were unhappy with Levein’s first tenure after the relative highs of the Jefferies era. The hopelessness of the Cala Homes deal, Robinson’s plan to move is to Murrayfield all combined to create a bit of apathy from some corners of the support.

Romanov coming in did see an increase in season tickets, and the fabled “waiting list”.

Since the new stand was built though, increasing our capacity, season tickets have increased in normal years. This balances out any increase that would have been seen when capacity was reduced somewhat. I think the increase that you mention was far more down to the quality of player that we suddenly started signing. There was a genuine invincible feeling at that time.