The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[DukDukGoose]

20 hours ago, tarapoa said:

I think in season 04/05, Aberdeen and Hibs were fighting for 3rd place - which became a lot more important due to Hibs losing to bottom six Dundee United in the SC semi - and the cup runners-up getting one of the UEFA slots.

Following the SPL scandalously sending us to Easter Road for a third time (a fixture which we won), we were still three points behind going into the final day.

We beat Hearts 2-0, but Hibs and the former rangers played out a W.Germany v Austria 82 0-1 at Easter Road on 'helicopter sunday'.............which kept Hibs ahead of us on goal difference.

Clearly both sides should have relegated for bringing the game into disrepute.

If I recall Hibs were utterly pumped in Europe by Dnipro, and the Dons had to wait to show how it should be done against the same opposition...........and ultimately become the only Scots club outside the gruesomes to get through a European group.

 

Was that not also the game where we serenaded Lee Miller for 90 mins? He then signed for Dundee United?

[Dons_1988]

9 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Was that not also the game where we serenaded Lee Miller for 90 mins? He then signed for Dundee United?

Aye.

[lubo_blaha]

Can’t wait for our government-funded 40k beach-dome to be built for the 2030 World Cup.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56241637

[tarapoa]

On 01/03/2021 at 14:18, Leith Green said:

Thats true, we were well beaten by a very good team over there - but thats not what we remember about Dnipro

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hibs-dnipro-appeal-15-years-19009185

Sometimes football is not the be all and end all, Hibs fans are still supporting orphanages over there 15 years later.

Aye, I travelled to Dnipro- and we took bags of clothes to a charity due to links established by Hibs fans who got in touch with us.

This was a great trip - very interesting and hardcore.  Ex-closed city from Soviet times - their club went bust a few years back after reaching the Europa final and a phoenix club has been formed. 

Some friendly folks, one or two who I still keep in touch with.  Then there were the entrepreneur kids who were passing bottles of beer through the fence (much needed), but others not quite so accommodating!  All part of the experience I suppose.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by tarapoa

[Rodhull]

Hornby injury not as bad as feared.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/donsnews/aberdeen-boost-as-loan-striker-fraser-hornbys-thigh-injury-not-as-bad-as-initially-feared/

No return date estimate but Mcinnes does think he could come back at some point this season.

[Frank Grimes]

I was in Dnipro as well 

The quines, mah gawd

Glad I was a single man back then, that’s all I can say 

[gannonball]

4 minutes ago, Frank Grimes said:

I was in Dnipro as well 

The quines, mah gawd

[d31]

4 hours ago, Rodhull said:

Hornby injury not as bad as feared.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/donsnews/aberdeen-boost-as-loan-striker-fraser-hornbys-thigh-injury-not-as-bad-as-initially-feared/

No return date estimate but Mcinnes does think he could come back at some point this season.

Throwback to never-having-scored-before Cosgrove starting all the games post split three years ago and helping us to an unexpected league finish

[Game of throw-ins]

On 28/02/2021 at 13:38, Sortmeout said:

I’ve always been a fan of McInnes but surely he has to in a bit of bother just now?

I hope not.

We're 4th in the league.  We're going through the worst spell under him, but like it or not 4th represents a good season for us.  People who think otherwise just haven't grasped what our place in the financial pecking order actually means in terms of the spread of likely outcomes.  If they did they'd appreciate what an outstanding manager we've got.

I say this not because I'm a happy clapper or super loyalist, but because it's the truth.  I'm old enough to remember the Fergie era, and at times the way I feel about the club is bound up with resentment that it's come to this.  Regular 3rd or 4th finishes representing the pinnacle of success and the virtual necessity of playing "pragmatic" football to achieve even that isn't what guys from my era signed up for.  But our place in the domestic as well as the wider financial playing field was very different then.  Where we are is where we are.

I've no criticism for fans who react by saying "well f*** that, I've got better things to do with my time and money, I'm out of here".  I'm sorry to lose them, but I can't blame them.  But the guys who think the McInnes era has been one of underachievement and that we can go out and bring in an era of equivalent or greater success playing a more expansive style of football are fantasists.  It's just not happening.

[highland_mechanic]

18 minutes ago, Game of throw-ins said:

I hope not.

We're 4th in the league.  We're going through the worst spell under him, but like it or not 4th represents a good season for us.  People who think otherwise just haven't grasped what our place in the financial pecking order actually means in terms of the spread of likely outcomes.  If they did they'd appreciate what an outstanding manager we've got.

I say this not because I'm a happy clapper or super loyalist, but because it's the truth.  I'm old enough to remember the Fergie era, and at times the way I feel about the club is bound up with resentment that it's come to this.  Regular 3rd or 4th finishes representing the pinnacle of success and the virtual necessity of playing "pragmatic" football to achieve even that isn't what guys from my era signed up for.  But our place in the domestic as well as the wider financial playing field was very different then.  Where we are is where we are.

I've no criticism for fans who react by saying "well f*** that, I've got better things to do with my time and money, I'm out of here".  I'm sorry to lose them, but I can't blame them.  But the guys who think the McInnes era has been one of underachievement and that we can go out and bring in an era of equivalent or greater success playing a more expansive style of football are fantasists.  It's just not happening.

Well I for one won't be spending £500 on a season ticket and AberDNA to watch a team that sets up to win 1-0 with a setpiece goal week after week. I've been a season ticket holder since 1995 and don't expect miracles but the entertainment is totally lacking under McInnes. I've seen more entertaining football in the Highland League than the garbage we've been producing in the last 3 months.

We are stale, boring to watch and I don't enjoy our games anymore.

[lubo_blaha]

I hope not.
We're 4th in the league.  We're going through the worst spell under him, but like it or not 4th represents a good season for us.  People who think otherwise just haven't grasped what our place in the financial pecking order actually means in terms of the spread of likely outcomes.  If they did they'd appreciate what an outstanding manager we've got.
I say this not because I'm a happy clapper or super loyalist, but because it's the truth.  I'm old enough to remember the Fergie era, and at times the way I feel about the club is bound up with resentment that it's come to this.  Regular 3rd or 4th finishes representing the pinnacle of success and the virtual necessity of playing "pragmatic" football to achieve even that isn't what guys from my era signed up for.  But our place in the domestic as well as the wider financial playing field was very different then.  Where we are is where we are.
I've no criticism for fans who react by saying "well f*** that, I've got better things to do with my time and money, I'm out of here".  I'm sorry to lose them, but I can't blame them.  But the guys who think the McInnes era has been one of underachievement and that we can go out and bring in an era of equivalent or greater success playing a more expansive style of football are fantasists.  It's just not happening.

Fair enough to say we can’t spend as much as Rangers and Celtic but we went into the season with the biggest playing budget we’ve ever had and we’re regularly failing to score against teams paying a fraction of that. We’ve dropped points against every team in the league apart from Killie. We’ve failed to score on thirteen occasions. We’ve scored once from open play in fourteen games. People will look at the table and say fourth is ok (or even good) but with our place in the pecking order, we’re seriously underperforming and we’d be lucky to be in the top six if it weren’t for a good spell at the start of the season.

[Game of throw-ins]

1 hour ago, highland_mechanic said:

Well I for one won't be spending £500 on a season ticket and AberDNA to watch a team that sets up to win 1-0 with a setpiece goal week after week. I've been a season ticket holder since 1995 and don't expect miracles but the entertainment is totally lacking under McInnes. I've seen more entertaining football in the Highland League than the garbage we've been producing in the last 3 months.

We are stale, boring to watch and I don't enjoy our games anymore.

I know plenty of guys who stopped going. I'm sorry the club lost their support but I can't honestly blame them.  The chances of real success are too low, the football isn't attractive enough.  Those are reasonable complaints. 

I just don't believe changing the manager can fix it. 

McInnes is a football professional, and professionals know things they don't necessarily shout from the rooftops because part of their job is to market the product and too much reality gets in the way of that.

One of those things is that, however much some fans pretend otherwise, bad results are much likelier to get you sacked than ugly football.

Another is that unless your financial position is very highly advantageous in your own league pragmatic, safety-first football will give you better results than an expansive approach.  There are good logical reasons for this, backed up by overwhelming statistical evidence. 

In modern times (last 20 or 30 years) no SPL manager outside of Rangers and Celtic has had a period of sustained success anything close to the level McInnes has achieved.  No SPL manager playing expansive football has managed anything better than a short purple patch, maximum one goodish season, before the wheels came off.   It's almost impossible to assemble the quality of squad you need to do it, and if you do you can't hold on to the players for 5 minutes.  Scott Wright had about 6 good games and he was gone.

I'm not arguing that the situation isn't shit.  In many ways it is.  Sacking a manager who's done a terrific job and taking pot luck on who else is available won't fix it.

[AFCDannyFTH]

13 minutes ago, Game of throw-ins said:

I know plenty of guys who stopped going. I'm sorry the club lost their support but I can't honestly blame them.  The chances of real success are too low, the football isn't attractive enough.  Those are reasonable complaints. 

I just don't believe changing the manager can fix it. 

McInnes is a football professional, and professionals know things they don't necessarily shout from the rooftops because part of their job is to market the product and too much reality gets in the way of that.

One of those things is that, however much some fans pretend otherwise, bad results are much likelier to get you sacked than ugly football.

Another is that unless your financial position is very highly advantageous in your own league pragmatic, safety-first football will give you better results than an expansive approach.  There are good logical reasons for this, backed up by overwhelming statistical evidence. 

In modern times (last 20 or 30 years) no SPL manager outside of Rangers and Celtic has had a period of sustained success anything close to the level McInnes has achieved.  No SPL manager playing expansive football has managed anything better than a short purple patch, maximum one goodish season, before the wheels came off.   It's almost impossible to assemble the quality of squad you need to do it, and if you do you can't hold on to the players for 5 minutes.  Scott Wright had about 6 good games and he was gone.

I'm not arguing that the situation isn't shit.  In many ways it is.  Sacking a manager who's done a terrific job and taking pot luck on who else is available won't fix it.

No SPL manager outside of Rangers and Celtic has had the same budget or wages as McInnes for a sustained period either. 

At this point where things have clearly stagnated, Keeping McInnes on for another season is just as pot luck as finding someone new. We have an enormous rebuild to come in the summer and there is no better time to bring in a fresh face who can take in his own players. 

[Rodhull]

Having that kind of non-goal scoring run we had is poor in itself but to do it two seasons in a row is pretty inexcusable given the resources available to Mcinnes. We’re certainly not in a position to take winning against anyone in the league for granted but we shouldn’t ever be going into a home game against bottom of the table Hamilton where a significant number of the support doubts our chances of even scoring a goal never mind winning.

[HarleyQuinn]

4 hours ago, Game of throw-ins said:

I hope not.

We're 4th in the league.  We're going through the worst spell under him, but like it or not 4th represents a good season for us.  People who think otherwise just haven't grasped what our place in the financial pecking order actually means in terms of the spread of likely outcomes.  If they did they'd appreciate what an outstanding manager we've got.

I say this not because I'm a happy clapper or super loyalist, but because it's the truth.  I'm old enough to remember the Fergie era, and at times the way I feel about the club is bound up with resentment that it's come to this.  Regular 3rd or 4th finishes representing the pinnacle of success and the virtual necessity of playing "pragmatic" football to achieve even that isn't what guys from my era signed up for.  But our place in the domestic as well as the wider financial playing field was very different then.  Where we are is where we are.

I've no criticism for fans who react by saying "well f*** that, I've got better things to do with my time and money, I'm out of here".  I'm sorry to lose them, but I can't blame them.  But the guys who think the McInnes era has been one of underachievement and that we can go out and bring in an era of equivalent or greater success playing a more expansive style of football are fantasists.  It's just not happening.

I myself also think McInnes is a good manager and would actually argue he's heavily under appreciated by our fans. I think he has been exceptionally unlucky with injuries, ref decisions, Covid, the forced sale of players etc that has affected the performance of the side. We'd have finished third last season had it not been cut short and we were incredibly unlucky not to finish third the season prior. This season we were cruising third up until both injuries and players missing matches due to Covid all happened at once. McInnes' connections to The Rangers doesn't help his case either. Many want him out just for that.

We currently have a financial advantage on both Edinburgh sides (particularly Hibs) and really we should be finishing 3rd as a result. Once Aberdeen move into the new stadium I fully expect Aberdeen to be finishing third every season (minimum) along with winning the occasional cup (more frequently then any other side outside the OF). There would be no excuses for not achieving that given the forecasted revenue generated by the new stadium. Aberdeen are predicating an annual turnover of up to 26 million a year. That would mean a fair financial gap between ourselves and the Edinburgh sides.

Edited March 4, 2021 by HarleyQuinn

[Game of throw-ins]

4 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

Fair enough to say we can’t spend as much as Rangers and Celtic but we went into the season with the biggest playing budget we’ve ever had and we’re regularly failing to score against teams paying a fraction of that. We’ve dropped points against every team in the league apart from Killie. We’ve failed to score on thirteen occasions. We’ve scored once from open play in fourteen games. People will look at the table and say fourth is ok (or even good) but with our place in the pecking order, we’re seriously underperforming and we’d be lucky to be in the top six if it weren’t for a good spell at the start of the season.

The value of the 3rd biggest budget needs to be clarified.  It's not where we are in the league table of budgets that is most important, it's the size of the differentials.  The key point about Rangers and Celtic isn't that their budgets are bigger than ours, it's that they are massively bigger than ours. 

Our budget is similar to two other clubs (Hearts and Hibs).  There then follows a succession of clubs with smaller budgets than ours, but in football terms not massively smaller.  The difference between the calibre of player that Celtic can sign and retain compared to us is obvious;  the difference between the calibre of player we can sign and retain compared to, say, Motherwell, is pretty marginal.   We only need a player or two being injured, in poor form, low in confidence etc and our small advantage is quickly snuffed out.

The size of Rangers and Celtic's advantage means that they are virtually guaranteed 1st and 2nd irrespective of other variables (luck, quality of manager etc).   Look at this season where Hibs are considered to have had a very good season and Celtic a catastrophically bad one; Celtic are still 15 points clear of Hibs.

Our budget means that we should do better than smaller clubs over a long enough period of time - and we do;  but we don't have nearly enough of an advantage to virtually guarantee finishing above them season after season.  The evidence of this truth isn't hard to find.

We just need to look at history.  Let's look at the last 20 years, say - at Hearts, Aberden and Hibs, 3 clubs with the same kind of budget with Aberdeen conveniently in the middle for most of that period.  League tables show that, as we'd expect, these are the 3rd, 4th and 5th most successful clubs over the 20 year period.  But dig down and you see their advantage over smaller clubs isn't enough to guarantee higher league placings season after season, like the top 2;  in fact its not even close.

Taking out McInnes's 7 years in charge, these clubs have played 53 seasons in the past 20 years (20 each for Hibs and Hearts, 13 for non-McInnes managed Aberdeen).   That represents a pretty decent sample for measuring the advantage their budgets gave them over smaller clubs:  big enough for the effect of other variables, like pure luck and the quality of individual managers to even out.

In those 53 seasons these clubs managed 16 top 4 finishes between them.  That's about a 30% success rate.  So they failed to achieve a top 4 place around 70% of the time.  Obviously this means they very regularly finished below smaller clubs.  (Remember, we finished 8th 3 times in a row in the seasons before McInnes).

McInnes on the other hand has a 100% record of finishing top 4 (or top 3 without Rangers, which we can regard as equivalent) with most of those being top 3 (top 2 without Rangers or even, in one case, with Rangers).  The odds against repeating a success with a 30% probability 7 times in a row are huge. Using the standard formula of multiplying 30% by itself 7 times gives you a probability of around 0.02% or about 2 in 10,000.  

I know there are plenty of rough edges on this model and people could pick holes, but I still think it should be enough to leave thoughtful people in no doubt that the the myth that we've done no more than deliver on reasonable expectation in the past 7 seasons is a gazillion miles from the truth.  We've massively overachieved.

No-one's denying we've had a bad patch this season.  But there are many extenuating circumstances, and we are still on track to finish 4th.

Personally I think we'd be crazy to be considering sacking a manager with that kind of track record.  We should lose the illusion that its our budget alone, and not our manager, that has delivered consistent top 4 finishes.  What goes around comes around, and sadly the days of the bottom 6 finishes, the relegation battles etc will return.  But let's not be in a hurry to get there.

 

 

[Dons_1988]

32 minutes ago, Game of throw-ins said:

The value of the 3rd biggest budget needs to be clarified.  It's not where we are in the league table of budgets that is most important, it's the size of the differentials.  The key point about Rangers and Celtic isn't that their budgets are bigger than ours, it's that they are massively bigger than ours. 

Our budget is similar to two other clubs (Hearts and Hibs).  There then follows a succession of clubs with smaller budgets than ours, but in football terms not massively smaller.  The difference between the calibre of player that Celtic can sign and retain compared to us is obvious;  the difference between the calibre of player we can sign and retain compared to, say, Motherwell, is pretty marginal.   We only need a player or two being injured, in poor form, low in confidence etc and our small advantage is quickly snuffed out.

The size of Rangers and Celtic's advantage means that they are virtually guaranteed 1st and 2nd irrespective of other variables (luck, quality of manager etc).   Look at this season where Hibs are considered to have had a very good season and Celtic a catastrophically bad one; Celtic are still 15 points clear of Hibs.

Our budget means that we should do better than smaller clubs over a long enough period of time - and we do;  but we don't have nearly enough of an advantage to virtually guarantee finishing above them season after season.  The evidence of this truth isn't hard to find.

We just need to look at history.  Let's look at the last 20 years, say - at Hearts, Aberden and Hibs, 3 clubs with the same kind of budget with Aberdeen conveniently in the middle for most of that period.  League tables show that, as we'd expect, these are the 3rd, 4th and 5th most successful clubs over the 20 year period.  But dig down and you see their advantage over smaller clubs isn't enough to guarantee higher league placings season after season, like the top 2;  in fact its not even close.

Taking out McInnes's 7 years in charge, these clubs have played 53 seasons in the past 20 years (20 each for Hibs and Hearts, 13 for non-McInnes managed Aberdeen).   That represents a pretty decent sample for measuring the advantage their budgets gave them over smaller clubs:  big enough for the effect of other variables, like pure luck and the quality of individual managers to even out.

In those 53 seasons these clubs managed 16 top 4 finishes between them.  That's about a 30% success rate.  So they failed to achieve a top 4 place around 70% of the time.  Obviously this means they very regularly finished below smaller clubs.  (Remember, we finished 8th 3 times in a row in the seasons before McInnes).

McInnes on the other hand has a 100% record of finishing top 4 (or top 3 without Rangers, which we can regard as equivalent) with most of those being top 3 (top 2 without Rangers or even, in one case, with Rangers).  The odds against repeating a success with a 30% probability 7 times in a row are huge. Using the standard formula of multiplying 30% by itself 7 times gives you a probability of around 0.02% or about 2 in 10,000.  

I know there are plenty of rough edges on this model and people could pick holes, but I still think it should be enough to leave thoughtful people in no doubt that the the myth that we've done no more than deliver on reasonable expectation in the past 7 seasons is a gazillion miles from the truth.  We've massively overachieved.

No-one's denying we've had a bad patch this season.  But there are many extenuating circumstances, and we are still on track to finish 4th.

Personally I think we'd be crazy to be considering sacking a manager with that kind of track record.  We should lose the illusion that its our budget alone, and not our manager, that has delivered consistent top 4 finishes.  What goes around comes around, and sadly the days of the bottom 6 finishes, the relegation battles etc will return.  But let's not be in a hurry to get there.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with everything, but I do agree with quite a few points and you make them well. 

[DrewDon]

It is such a ridiculous argument to suggest that we shouldn't replace McInnes just in case the new guy happens to do worse. There is no reason at all that the new manager should, or would, return us to the McGhee days. And, if he does, you get rid of him and get somebody else in. That wouldn't make the decision to replace McInnes the wrong one, just like McGhee being rubbish didn't mean that getting rid of Calderwood wasn't the correct decision. 

[lubo_blaha]

The value of the 3rd biggest budget needs to be clarified.  It's not where we are in the league table of budgets that is most important, it's the size of the differentials.  The key point about Rangers and Celtic isn't that their budgets are bigger than ours, it's that they are massively bigger than ours. 
Our budget is similar to two other clubs (Hearts and Hibs).  There then follows a succession of clubs with smaller budgets than ours, but in football terms not massively smaller.  The difference between the calibre of player that Celtic can sign and retain compared to us is obvious;  the difference between the calibre of player we can sign and retain compared to, say, Motherwell, is pretty marginal.   We only need a player or two being injured, in poor form, low in confidence etc and our small advantage is quickly snuffed out.
The size of Rangers and Celtic's advantage means that they are virtually guaranteed 1st and 2nd irrespective of other variables (luck, quality of manager etc).   Look at this season where Hibs are considered to have had a very good season and Celtic a catastrophically bad one; Celtic are still 15 points clear of Hibs.
Our budget means that we should do better than smaller clubs over a long enough period of time - and we do;  but we don't have nearly enough of an advantage to virtually guarantee finishing above them season after season.  The evidence of this truth isn't hard to find.
We just need to look at history.  Let's look at the last 20 years, say - at Hearts, Aberden and Hibs, 3 clubs with the same kind of budget with Aberdeen conveniently in the middle for most of that period.  League tables show that, as we'd expect, these are the 3rd, 4th and 5th most successful clubs over the 20 year period.  But dig down and you see their advantage over smaller clubs isn't enough to guarantee higher league placings season after season, like the top 2;  in fact its not even close.
Taking out McInnes's 7 years in charge, these clubs have played 53 seasons in the past 20 years (20 each for Hibs and Hearts, 13 for non-McInnes managed Aberdeen).   That represents a pretty decent sample for measuring the advantage their budgets gave them over smaller clubs:  big enough for the effect of other variables, like pure luck and the quality of individual managers to even out.
In those 53 seasons these clubs managed 16 top 4 finishes between them.  That's about a 30% success rate.  So they failed to achieve a top 4 place around 70% of the time.  Obviously this means they very regularly finished below smaller clubs.  (Remember, we finished 8th 3 times in a row in the seasons before McInnes).
McInnes on the other hand has a 100% record of finishing top 4 (or top 3 without Rangers, which we can regard as equivalent) with most of those being top 3 (top 2 without Rangers or even, in one case, with Rangers).  The odds against repeating a success with a 30% probability 7 times in a row are huge. Using the standard formula of multiplying 30% by itself 7 times gives you a probability of around 0.02% or about 2 in 10,000.  
I know there are plenty of rough edges on this model and people could pick holes, but I still think it should be enough to leave thoughtful people in no doubt that the the myth that we've done no more than deliver on reasonable expectation in the past 7 seasons is a gazillion miles from the truth.  We've massively overachieved.
No-one's denying we've had a bad patch this season.  But there are many extenuating circumstances, and we are still on track to finish 4th.
Personally I think we'd be crazy to be considering sacking a manager with that kind of track record.  We should lose the illusion that its our budget alone, and not our manager, that has delivered consistent top 4 finishes.  What goes around comes around, and sadly the days of the bottom 6 finishes, the relegation battles etc will return.  But let's not be in a hurry to get there.
 
 

I agree with a lot of the points you’ve made there. However, we do have a playing budget of at least two and in some cases three times the size of 8 teams in the league and I wouldn’t be confident in us scoring against any of them for the majority of this season, never mind beating them. Without sounding arrogant, we could go and sign almost any of the best players from these teams (in some cases we have) and yet when we play them, we rarely so much as look like scoring aside from set pieces or penalties.

McInnes has raised standards at the club and he deserves credit for that. Off the park things look better too. I’m not one of the people clambering for him to go but the football has gradually declined for a couple of years now which can no longer just be put down to a bad run of form. We’ve put ourselves in a position of relative strength as a club and I don’t think we should accept things slumping like they have done.

[DukDukGoose]

10 hours ago, DrewDon said:

It is such a ridiculous argument to suggest that we shouldn't replace McInnes just in case the new guy happens to do worse. There is no reason at all that the new manager should, or would, return us to the McGhee days. And, if he does, you get rid of him and get somebody else in. That wouldn't make the decision to replace McInnes the wrong one, just like McGhee being rubbish didn't mean that getting rid of Calderwood wasn't the correct decision. 

Aye.

The boy had a very well written piece but I don't have the time to debate it. Even if I did I'm so apathetic towards the club at the moment that I'd just lose interest in that too.

There's an obvious downwards trend at the club over the pass few years. Keeping the existing management isn't going to buck that. I'd be delighted to see him turn it around but it isn't going to happen.

I know folk who have been youth team coaches at the club over McInnes time. The general feeling is that they think he's a genuine guy, who loves the club but have always thought he was very limited tactically. He excelled at getting the correct players in most of the time and was very quick to empty those who weren't up to it. His man-management was brilliant too. I was always sceptical of that but it's pretty easy to see now IMO.