LongTimeLurker Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Yes, No because there added strings about clubs needing bronze level license floodlights although the playoff may not even happen if that applies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancinirules Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 To be honest, non league football in the Borders is barely on my radar - I've only noticed it when the junior teams have been beating them in the Scottish Cup. I fail to see how you can make any judgement whatsoever on a group of clubs when you admit to knowing next to nothing about them. Linlithgow Rose are part of a huge community club. Bo'ness Utd have strong links to developing football in the community. Broxburn and Bonnyrigg are both at the centre of community football. Further down the league, Blackburn and Haddington are in a similar position. The league structure (and the desire ... or lack of it) to join a different league structure has absolutely nothing to do with where we are positioned in our community. Junior football grew up as a community based game playing in more local league structures. Take a wee trip over to Auchinleck and see for yourself whether they are an integral part of the community they play from. They've got a cracking ground, they're upgrading all the time, they have a support which will regularly consist of between 10% and 20% of the entire population of the place attending their games. And you think they don't deserve to be part of the nation's football culture??? That's lazy, generalised, ill informed nonsense I'm afraid. Apologies for just jumping into the Broomhill thread - I'll scuttle off now. I am sure you are a very nice man and your club is lovely too. However, you are not going to get me to think Junior football is actually relevant to my life by telling me I am wrong for not being even minimally interested in it. Trying to humiliate Borders clubs by referring to the results between junior clubs and them, whilst conveniently "forgetting" that some of those junior players are on very decent wages, and virtually none of the Borders lads are, is pretty poor. As for my dig at the Juniors having no right to be discussed as part of Scottish football culture, I don't have to be particularly knowledgeable to have noticed that at present the pyramid does not include any ex-Junior clubs. So, we are looking at Scottish football - Youth-Amateur-EoS/SoS-LL-SPFL and, separately at Junior football which happens to be played in Scotland, but has no bearing on the real process of promotion and relegation that is necessary to motivate our best players coaches and committees to do even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I am sure you are a very nice man and your club is lovely too. However, you are not going to get me to think Junior football is actually relevant to my life by telling me I am wrong for not being even minimally interested in it. Trying to humiliate Borders clubs by referring to the results between junior clubs and them, whilst conveniently "forgetting" that some of those junior players are on very decent wages, and virtually none of the Borders lads are, is pretty poor. As for my dig at the Juniors having no right to be discussed as part of Scottish football culture, I don't have to be particularly knowledgeable to have noticed that at present the pyramid does not include any ex-Junior clubs. So, we are looking at Scottish football - Youth-Amateur-EoS/SoS-LL-SPFL and, separately at Junior football which happens to be played in Scotland, but has no bearing on the real process of promotion and relegation that is necessary to motivate our best players coaches and committees to do even better. There is no Pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 ....So, we are looking at Scottish football - Youth-Amateur-EoS/SoS-LL-SPFL and, separately at Junior football which happens to be played in Scotland,... In reality, no we are not because the same national association handles stuff like player registration and referee assignments for both junior and senior football. It's not safe to assume that SFA board policy is going to remain the same as it has been in recent years if the amended set of AGM resolutions get passed as appears likely given they are based on an agreement reached between the SFA and SPFL boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VodkaTap Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 There is no Pyramid. And that's all because the juniors are not included ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 And that's all because the juniors are not included ?? That's because there is no Pyramid. There is no promotion/relegation currently at the top or bottom of the LL, there is no Junior involvement, there is no Amateur involvement. Involvement in the LL is by application only where you do not need a team or a ground to be successful. How does an ambitious club from the North who are currently outwith the HFL progress? is there vacancies? is there promotion/relegation? There is no Pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 That's because there is no Pyramid. There is no promotion/relegation currently at the top or bottom of the LL, there is no Junior involvement, there is no Amateur involvement. Involvement in the LL is by application only where you do not need a team or a ground to be successful. How does an ambitious club from the North who are currently outwith the HFL progress? is there vacancies? is there promotion/relegation? There is no Pyramid. We don't have a all encompassing pyramid, but I would say from next season we do, it may only have one regionalised split but it's a pyramid, just one that needs more tiers added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I am sure you are a very nice man and your club is lovely too. However, you are not going to get me to think Junior football is actually relevant to my life by telling me I am wrong for not being even minimally interested in it. Trying to humiliate Borders clubs by referring to the results between junior clubs and them, whilst conveniently "forgetting" that some of those junior players are on very decent wages, and virtually none of the Borders lads are, is pretty poor. As for my dig at the Juniors having no right to be discussed as part of Scottish football culture, I don't have to be particularly knowledgeable to have noticed that at present the pyramid does not include any ex-Junior clubs. So, we are looking at Scottish football - Youth-Amateur-EoS/SoS-LL-SPFL and, separately at Junior football which happens to be played in Scotland, but has no bearing on the real process of promotion and relegation that is necessary to motivate our best players coaches and committees to do even better. I am indeed a very nice man. And I wasn't intending to humiliate anyone. You started the blind ignorance race with that line by including my club within a group that you know next to nothing about and asserting: "Whether they deserve to be part of the nation's football culture at all, I doubt, as they don't seem to have much of a plan to improve football from grassroots up." My team has 2 lads who played with our Community Club as kids who both went through the grades to what is now SPFL Championship as very young boys at Clyde. Clyde went tits up and they came back to the Rose. We have a current Community Club goalkeeper on our books. We have a current Community Club midfielder on our books. Neither features often in the squad on a Saturday but they hook into the training with our lads and they benefit from that. Moreover, it may surprise you to know that the head of our Community Club coaching staff was awarded the SFA Grassroots Coach of the Year at a major awards ceremony at Hampden last August. He is a Uefa licenced coach, a goalkeeping specialist who works with a range of different groups right up to women's international level. As well as being the head of the Community Club coaching staff, he is the Linlithgow Rose goalkeeping coach, was our interim manager for a period in March and has been asked to remain in post following a change in mgt personnel. In addition to that, we have our Entry Level licence because the facilities are decent. Our player facilities are of a level that encouraged the Australian national team to use Prestonfield as their pre-match venue ahead of a game against Scotland in recent times. We have a thriving support with over 200 season ticket holders. We have a covered stand with 300 seats and terracing cover for around 1000. Our playing surface is one of the best you'll find at any level of the game. We pay our players well for football at this level with most earning between £70 and £120 a week. We have no sugar daddy and we've had no grants in recent seasons to support what we've done. Now, on the back of all of that, does my club deserve to be cast aside or forgotten in the manner you suggested simply because they have been unable to accept that what was offered up by the SFA in the construction of the LL was a step forward for them? There are few clubs in the LL who have a better structure than Linlithgow Rose and that may be the case for some time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broomhill Ultra Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 What has this pish to do with the mighty BSC Glasgow?! Only joking of course. I think the idea of clubs like BSC making the step up is exactly what a pyramid should promote. The madness is they've essentially leapfrogged long established amateur and junior clubs (with actual strips, players and grounds) to be potentially a season away from promotion to the national divisions. Surely a more sensible route for them would have been a Glasgow league with a West region above and a LL above that? So probably starting about a tier 7/8 rather than 5? I don't know much about the EoS or SoS leagues but it seems to me that the junior regional setup is excellent and should have been the geographical basis for the lower parts of the pyramid. I grew up in Highland League country and the North Juniors always seemed to be portrayed as a massive drop in standard below the bulk of the HL but the transition of Inverurie, Turriff and Formartine would suggest to me it wasn't really true and all we have is various clubs regardless of grade and they all deserve a place in a pyramid a la England. People will know more about this than me but even Scottish rugby has a national pyramid in place I believe? Two 'superteams' fucking off to a british/euro league also has a certain appeal My solution in an ideal world would be to come up with a genuine pyramid plan with a 10 year period of amalgamations of leagues and structures. Take what has been positive about the LL so far but recognise that the speed that it all happened was not conducive to encouraging proper participation by all the existing grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Now, on the back of all of that, does my club deserve to be cast aside or forgotten in the manner you suggested simply because they have been unable to accept that what was offered up by the SFA in the construction of the LL was a step forward for them? There are few clubs in the LL who have a better structure than Linlithgow Rose and that may be the case for some time to come. Why doesn't your club deserve to be cast aside and forgotten? If you're not willing to work with the organising body's vision, why be a part of it? If you ran a franchise of, say, SPAR and management wanted you to do something and you didn't why would you remain a part of it>=? What would the SFA have to do to convince you? Why can't you compromise? What are you willing to compromise on? So? There are few clubs in the Juniors with a better structure than your mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Why doesn't your club deserve to be cast aside and forgotten? If you're not willing to work with the organising body's vision, why be a part of it? All junior clubs are registered members of the SFA. The SJFA is an affiliated body within the SFA and is not separate from it, so the SFA inherently has the power to wind up the SJFA. If as appears likely clubs like St Cuthberts Wanderers, Wigtown and Newton Stewart are going to be allowed to become licensed by the SFA while not wanting to move to the Lowland League, why should junior clubs not be allowed to do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancinirules Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 "Now, on the back of all of that, does my club deserve to be cast aside or forgotten in the manner you suggested simply because they have been unable to accept that what was offered up by the SFA in the construction of the LL was a step forward for them?" Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I was in the same boat as Enigma and mancinirules about just freezing the Juniors out, but that was more when the standard of 'debate' from the Juniors was "lol we'd pump these teams and take a thoosand fans". As the more intelligent Junior fans put across their arguments it's understandable that they have these concerns. You have to work with them as the ideal for us all I'm sure is to have a full pyramid in place with all sides involved (I agree with those who say "we're all just football teams"). However, it's a two way thing. I have nothing from the Juniors to suggest they are willing to compromise on anything. Until they're actually willing to offer up suggestions and take into account non-Junior clubs they can't spout off about no one doing anything to include/help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 If as appears likely clubs like St Cuthberts Wanderers, Wigtown and Newton Stewart are going to be allowed to become licensed by the SFA while not wanting to move to the Lowland League, why should junior clubs not be allowed to do the same? Where have you got this from now? As far as I am aware nobody in the pyramid structure is getting the chance to not accept promotion. The one example you came up with in The Northern league applied for promotion once they had got their ground in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I provided you with many more examples than Spennymoor Town you are just too lazy to do the research. There were no applications for LL entry from the SoS league, but there is plenty of activity going on in getting grounds up to scratch, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I provided you with many more examples than Spennymoor Town you are just too lazy to do the research. There were no applications for LL entry from the SoS league, but there is plenty of activity going on in getting grounds up to scratch, You are just talking nonsense. You stated this as fact back it up, once again making up stories to suit your own agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Do the research. I have pointed you in the direction where you can easily find other examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I was in the same boat as Enigma and mancinirules about just freezing the Juniors out, but that was more when the standard of 'debate' from the Juniors was "lol we'd pump these teams and take a thoosand fans". As the more intelligent Junior fans put across their arguments it's understandable that they have these concerns. You have to work with them as the ideal for us all I'm sure is to have a full pyramid in place with all sides involved (I agree with those who say "we're all just football teams"). However, it's a two way thing. I have nothing from the Juniors to suggest they are willing to compromise on anything. Until they're actually willing to offer up suggestions and take into account non-Junior clubs they can't spout off about no one doing anything to include/help them. Absolutely spot on. Can I ask junior fans what exactly they are going to achieve in the setting up of this 'rival' LL aside from trying to compete and trying to discredit the actual LL, which is hardly going to aide in the creation of a unified non-league? It's like trying to united North and South Korea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 It's like trying to united North and South Korea... No it's not. The SJFA is subordinate to the SFA. Neither of the Korean states is subordinate to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 No it's not. The SJFA is subordinate to the SFA. Neither of the Korean states is subordinate to the other. Yes, I know that, but obviously the situations aren't directly comparable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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