Donathan Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 On the forthcoming launch of a new IT system, the project manager said earlier this week: ”We’ve boarded the aircraft, closed the doors and ready to pushback. Just waiting on the final go ahead from air traffic control” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, Donathan said: On the forthcoming launch of a new IT system, the project manager said earlier this week: ”We’ve boarded the aircraft, closed the doors and ready to pushback. Just waiting on the final go ahead from air traffic control” They’ll be waiting a while as they need to talk to the Ramp Tower first, and that’s run by the airport, not ATC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, TxRover said: They’ll be waiting a while as they need to talk to the Ramp Tower first, and that’s run by the airport, not ATC. a final "go ahead" isnt quite right in a tortured takeoff analogy either i dont think, it has to be an ultra clear/specific "cleared for takeoff" from post Tenerife disaster. so its not so much a go-ahead, its takeoff clearance. pedantic but fuckit could also be an uncontrolled ramp in which case he'll have to deal with the ground crew only, they're ran by the specific airlines i believe edit: source - patchy knowledge ive picked up from youtube air disaster videos Edited January 26, 2023 by Thistle_do_nicely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: a final "go ahead" isnt quite right in a tortured takeoff analogy either i dont think, it has to be an ultra clear/specific "cleared for takeoff" from post Tenerife disaster. so its not so much a go-ahead, its takeoff clearance. pedantic but fuckit could also be an uncontrolled ramp in which case he'll have to deal with the ground crew only, they're ran by the specific airlines i believe edit: source - patchy knowledge ive picked up from youtube air disaster videos Pretty close. Smaller airports have no ramp control, but the ground crew assist in backing off the gate/clearing the hard stand. Larger airports have ramp towers, often one for each terminal, that control the area up to the taxiway entry’s/exits. The taxiways and runways are under the purview of the controllers IF there is a tower or remote tower setup, if not the flight crew make the requisite reports on taxi and taking the runway. The controllers have to specifically clear an aircraft to a runaway via a route and then have to issue clearance for each runway crossing, the pilots must stop before even an inactive runway for clearance. Then the flight must be cleared into the runway and into takeoff position (now “line up and wait” versus the old “position and hold”). The there is a specific release clearance to takeoff (such as “Speedbird Fifty Seven Twenty, Runway Three Two, fly runway heading, climb and maintain flight level six zero, cleared for takeoff”). In flight is a whole other mess of stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Ramp control and uncontrolled ramps separate from ATC is very much an American thing. And apparently a recipe for f**k ups if you watch ATC YouTube. American ATC is weird all in. In the UK you’ll need clearance to push back and start up from the tower controller (ground movement control) then take off clearance from the tower (air) controller. That may be the same person depending on the airport/time of day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 51 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said: Ramp control and uncontrolled ramps separate from ATC is very much an American thing. And apparently a recipe for f**k ups if you watch ATC YouTube. American ATC is weird all in. In the UK you’ll need clearance to push back and start up from the tower controller (ground movement control) then take off clearance from the tower (air) controller. That may be the same person depending on the airport/time of day. Actually know that not to be 100% true from experience landing at Manchester…ramp control wasn’t ATC…but that was a few years ago, so might have changed. The actual need to separate Ramp Control from ATC in the U.S. is due to volume, and it works fine because the movement areas are all ATC controlled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 It's all trial and error... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: It's all trial and error... One for the tombstone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 10 hours ago, Donathan said: On the forthcoming launch of a new IT system, the project manager said earlier this week: ”We’ve boarded the aircraft, closed the doors and ready to pushback. Just waiting on the final go ahead from air traffic control” I've been subjected to enough IT system launches over the last 20 odd years to know that this plane is crashing in a fireball seconds after takeoff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 10 hours ago, TxRover said: They’ll be waiting a while as they need to talk to the Ramp Tower first, and that’s run by the airport, not ATC. 10 hours ago, TxRover said: They’ll be waiting a while as they need to talk to the Ramp Tower first, and that’s run by the airport, not ATC. 7 hours ago, TxRover said: Pretty close. Smaller airports have no ramp control, but the ground crew assist in backing off the gate/clearing the hard stand. Larger airports have ramp towers, often one for each terminal, that control the area up to the taxiway entry’s/exits. The taxiways and runways are under the purview of the controllers IF there is a tower or remote tower setup, if not the flight crew make the requisite reports on taxi and taking the runway. The controllers have to specifically clear an aircraft to a runaway via a route and then have to issue clearance for each runway crossing, the pilots must stop before even an inactive runway for clearance. Then the flight must be cleared into the runway and into takeoff position (now “line up and wait” versus the old “position and hold”). The there is a specific release clearance to takeoff (such as “Speedbird Fifty Seven Twenty, Runway Three Two, fly runway heading, climb and maintain flight level six zero, cleared for takeoff”). In flight is a whole other mess of stuff. 7 hours ago, Jamie_Beatson said: Ramp control and uncontrolled ramps separate from ATC is very much an American thing. And apparently a recipe for f**k ups if you watch ATC YouTube. American ATC is weird all in. In the UK you’ll need clearance to push back and start up from the tower controller (ground movement control) then take off clearance from the tower (air) controller. That may be the same person depending on the airport/time of day. 6 hours ago, TxRover said: Actually know that not to be 100% true from experience landing at Manchester…ramp control wasn’t ATC…but that was a few years ago, so might have changed. The actual need to separate Ramp Control from ATC in the U.S. is due to volume, and it works fine because the movement areas are all ATC controlled. 'Airport Speak Nonsense' thread for this pish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, hk blues said: 'Airport Speak Nonsense' thread for this pish All aboard that thread Anyone who is not all aboard can ignore the following for @TxRover - according to Manchester’s published AIP entry all departing aircraft would require ATC clearance from ground movement control in the tower to move off stand. I’d imagine if you’re parking as soon as you cross the line off the taxiway and on to the apron you’d be someone else’s problem, such is the book definition of movement/manoeuvring areas, but even then ground should be giving you taxi instructions to a stand number. Local roolz for local airports though… For those interested in an exciting career in ATC you can expect to spend many months learning definitions of words and phrases that sound very similar but that are very different… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 13 hours ago, Donathan said: On the forthcoming launch of a new IT system, the project manager said earlier this week: ”We’ve boarded the aircraft, closed the doors and ready to pushback. Just waiting on the final go ahead from air traffic control” Hope your response was ' If you the captain glad I'm wearing a parachute' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said: All aboard that thread Anyone who is not all aboard can ignore the following for @TxRover - according to Manchester’s published AIP entry all departing aircraft would require ATC clearance from ground movement control in the tower to move off stand. I’d imagine if you’re parking as soon as you cross the line off the taxiway and on to the apron you’d be someone else’s problem, such is the book definition of movement/manoeuvring areas, but even then ground should be giving you taxi instructions to a stand number. Local roolz for local airports though… For those interested in an exciting career in ATC you can expect to spend many months learning definitions of words and phrases that sound very similar but that are very different… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Any aircraft that is ready for pushback is obviously still at the gate. Highly unlikely that ATC will be talking to them at that stage. I would be deeply concerned about an IT manager who clearly has failed to identify all the steps involved. Speaking of which, there is no mention of retracting the walkway or the steps up to the aircraft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 One of my colleagues asked me to look at something so that "we weren't re-inventing the wheel". We don't work as inventors or mechanics. What she actually meant was "because i'm too lazy to search for an email". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Just got this. What in the name of f**k is a job family? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkay said: Just got this. What in the name of f**k is a job family? Ffs. Have you also got the Wheel of Confusion aka (yes, sorry) Competency and Values Framework? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkay said: Just got this. What in the name of f**k is a job family? I'm sure we can all think of a few jobby families we'd rather avoid. I presume that sentence ends with "...get utterly to f**k and never return". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Loonytoons said: Ffs. Have you also got the Wheel of Confusion aka (yes, sorry) Competency and Values Framework? f**k knows. Probably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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