EdTheDuck Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I should probably start a thread in misc other fitba...but Argentina's FA has changed its mind and instead of going for a year long 30 team championship are going for another transitional championship of 30 teams split into two 15 team groups with playoffs...before they decide on what the future will bring... Jebus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I should probably start a thread in misc other fitba...but Argentina's FA has changed its mind and instead of going for a year long 30 team championship are going for another transitional championship of 30 teams split into two 15 team groups with playoffs...before they decide on what the future will bring... Jebus When you think the SFA are bad, and then you see this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I know they have messed about with the periods for winning the title (e.g. Apertura-Clausura), getting relegated (e.g. average over X seasons), and so on... ... but in terms of actual division size, they have only ever had 20 clubs playing 38 matches since the national league was instituted in 1985. It had been remarkably stable. Even before that, when they had a strange mixture of 'National' (basically a cup starting with groups) and 'Metropolitan' (a league), the league was 19 playing 36 since 1980. Wouldn't surprise me if the top 10 (or similar) finishers in each pool of 15 become the reconstituted Primera Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 For those who are interested in such things... Racing Club beat River Plate 1-0 last night to leapfrog them into first place in the Torneo Inicial table with just two rounds to go Racing have 35 pts, River Plate & Lanus 33 with Boca & Independiente back on 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I know they have messed about with the periods for winning the title (e.g. Apertura-Clausura), getting relegated (e.g. average over X seasons), and so on... ... but in terms of actual division size, they have only ever had 20 clubs playing 38 matches since the national league was instituted in 1985. It had been remarkably stable. Even before that, when they had a strange mixture of 'National' (basically a cup starting with groups) and 'Metropolitan' (a league), the league was 19 playing 36 since 1980. Wouldn't surprise me if the top 10 (or similar) finishers in each pool of 15 become the reconstituted Primera Division. Only if the (self appointed) Big Clubs occupy those places…otherwise there will be another square peg-round hole short term carve-up. It is Argentinian football after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 From the ridiculous to the ridiculouser... After weeks of uncertainty and rumours that a new 30-team Primera División would be present for just one short season, the Argentine Football Association (AFA) has approved a championship which will run from March to December in 2015. Under the plans confirmed today, two teams would be relegated from the top division in December while two Nacional B sides would go up, in a move which appears to backtrack on earlier reports that the AFA would look to reduce the number of Primera teams. The governing body bowed to pressure from the government, who through the Football for Everybody (FPT) program controls television rights for Argentina's top two leagues. FPT had signed a contract to cover a tournament spanning an entire year during the tenure of late AFA president Julio Grondona, who introduced the idea of expanding the Primera from 20 to 30 teams earlier this year. Under current plans, the championship will be played over 30 games. Each team will meet once in the year, with the remaining fixture coming from a round of derby matches. Later in 2016, a reduction of the teams in the top-flight is expected through a short Transitional tournament, that would bring the number down from 30 to 28 as well as aligning the football calendar with the European schedule. FYI The Argentine government currently pay something around $200 million for the rights to the Primera and National B through their Futebol Para Todos programme which ensures that games are broadcast on free-to-air public television*. SNP please note... *if you log into TVPublica.com.ar you can watch the Argentine games too - tomorrow night the 2nd leg of the superclassico Copa Sudamerica semi between River Plate & Boca is on KO at about 11:45pm IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 As this is becoming the 'reconstruction round the world' thread... All-change in Wales? 12 16-16 becoming 10 10-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 As this is becoming the 'reconstruction round the world' thread... All-change in Wales? 12 16-16 becoming 10 10-10 May as well... The Norwegians are discussing cutting the Tippenligaen from 16 to either 14 (with a 7-7 or 4-6-4 split) or to 12 (with a 6-6 split). Sounds like all that has to be decided is which version the clubs want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawfieldAggro Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 In my humble opine, the final sentence therein lies the biggest problem....the clubs deciding. The biggest will naturally dictate, and the inability, refusal or just downright greed of our clubs in not taking their power back after the demise of Rangers (1872-2012), is proving more and more conclusive in determining the future, if you could call it such, of the Scottish game. Norway is a fairly apt analogy, given the Lillestrom/Rosenborg stranglehold on the title until fairly lately, and the population factor, but the difference is that their feet are firmly on the ground where development and potential are concerned. We are far too wrapped up in what may be (potential attendances when, not if, succesful; stayaway fans returning, suddenly pining for their Saturday fix; imaginary heroes of the future having their enthusiasm.coached out of them by the time they grow funny hairs), to fully exploit what should be a fairly straightforward requirement. Its no coincidence that pre 1998, there may have been 10 of 11 titles won by one club, but what lay beneath was competitive and sustainable, and the less said about its impact on the international scale, the better. Yes there were 2 appearances in Uefa Cup finals, so what??? There were four European final appearances for the same two clubs between 1967 and 1973....we still failed to make four of the major tournament finals around those times, which for me is a far more telling tale. Closing down the SFL will prove to be the straw that broke the back of the game here, the signs are already tgere fir all to see. Or at least those who want to, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 In my humble opine, the final sentence therein lies the biggest problem....the clubs deciding. The biggest will naturally dictate, and the inability, refusal or just downright greed of our clubs in not taking their power back after the demise of Rangers (1872-2012), is proving more and more conclusive in determining the future, if you could call it such, of the Scottish game. Norway is a fairly apt analogy, given the Lillestrom/Rosenborg stranglehold on the title until fairly lately, and the population factor, but the difference is that their feet are firmly on the ground where development and potential are concerned. We are far too wrapped up in what may be (potential attendances when, not if, succesful; stayaway fans returning, suddenly pining for their Saturday fix; imaginary heroes of the future having their enthusiasm.coached out of them by the time they grow funny hairs), to fully exploit what should be a fairly straightforward requirement. Its no coincidence that pre 1998, there may have been 10 of 11 titles won by one club, but what lay beneath was competitive and sustainable, and the less said about its impact on the international scale, the better. Yes there were 2 appearances in Uefa Cup finals, so what??? There were four European final appearances for the same two clubs between 1967 and 1973....we still failed to make four of the major tournament finals around those times, which for me is a far more telling tale. Closing down the SFL will prove to be the straw that broke the back of the game here, the signs are already tgere fir all to see. Or at least those who want to, anyway. As a matter of fact the fans have spoken...by staying away in their droves since Norway went from a 14 to 16 team League. The average attendance has fallen by around 35% but although there are now almost 60 more games per season, the aggregate number of fans is now substantially less (14%) than it was under the 14 team system and this despite six different champions in 10 seasons. The experiment with the ‘classic’ 16 team playing a double round robin has been a resounding failure. All the evidence suggests that large, meaningless mid-tables are a recipe for failure in small countries and yet that is what “the fans” not only want here, they demand it as the means to reinvigorate our dying (sic) game. That is probably a clue as to why the fans are not consulted too strenuously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawfieldAggro Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 And so they shouldn't, Ed. We're in danger of agreeing here....its the politics upon which we dffer. People in Scotland talk of 'big' clubs in the sense of how many come through the gate in good times...thus leading to believing this is always how it shall be. The fans in this country are voting even more unanimously than in Norway.....the fact half of Parkhead is closed for European ties proves this. The point has to be realised, at some stage, that a great many have been lost. This will affect Falkirk, Dunfermline, Raith, Morton etc a lot more than Celtic, yet those are just four of the clubs who many would welcome into an extended Premier Division. Scotland has always posted among the highest per-head-of-population attendance figures in Europe, and will continue to do so.....but we are nowhere near where we seem to believe we should be. We simply cannot have 18-22/24 clubs operating at maximum output and potential at the one time, which is what we'd need for a larger top flight to be successful, in terms of providing a challenge to the ugly sisters, quality performance in Europe and a functional national team, which i believe we all desire.What we have right now is a cocophony of white elephant buildings all over the country, no one left who is prepared to pay top dollar to fill them, and absolute fantasists in charge who have peddled the land-of-purple-heather myth sold to them by the charlatans who led us into this fucking mess in the first place. Its completely soul destroying, and doing five hour round trips to Broadwood for home games shows me, at the very least, up for believing that there is an alternative, attainable goal that i've yet to see evidence of, out there for us to believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I’m completely in agreement with you and my initial response ran to several hundred words and meandered off into the middle distance… Suffice to say that almost every league in Europe in the medium and smaller countries are trying to find the magic beans that will get more people through the turnstiles and watching on TV as the Big Leagues get more and more in revenues. I don’t think there’s much that can be done to get more folks inside grounds week in, week out the best we can hope for is creating a set-up that produces more games with something hanging on them because that’s what brings people to the grounds more than anything else nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 In Scotland, 14 teams seems like a sensible option, it is probably the perfect cut-off between 4 times a season boredom and interesting games.Once Home, Once Away, then a 7-7 split = 32 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 In Scotland, 14 teams seems like a sensible option, it is probably the perfect cut-off between 4 times a season boredom and interesting games. Once Home, Once Away, then a 7-7 split = 32 games I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 No way the clubs would drop from 38 games to 32, play each other once after the split (so thrice overall), and have odd numbers in splits = blank weeks and uneven finish. I used to advocate 14 pretty strongly, splitting 6/8 for 36/40 games, but even that has its problems and has probably become less achieveable, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 No way the clubs would drop from 38 games to 32, play each other once after the split (so thrice overall), and have odd numbers in splits = blank weeks and uneven finish. I used to advocate 14 pretty strongly, splitting 6/8 for 36/40 games, but even that has its problems and has probably become less achieveable, IMO. 14 Team - Once Home and Away - 26 and split 7-7 home and away again - 38 I think we can all agree that this is a sensible option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 For those of you even remotely interested, Racing Club de Avellaneda won 3-0 tonight and are currently 2 points ahead of River Plate with one round of games to go in the Argentine Primera Division. What it means is that Racing, one of the lesser lights, can win the title for just the second time in just under 50 years with a home win versus lowly Godoy Cruz next weekend. Now you may well be saying Big Fucking Deal and I don’t really blame you but Racing Club winning the title is exactly what the Apertura/Clausura system is all about, to give the ‘wee teams’ some hope of winning a championship and by association to help their finances both directly at the gate and by making the game more attractive to TV by having twice as many title races with more teams involved. If we were ever going to look a system that would reinvigorate our game, the split season is it and it would actually work best with a league of 16. This season after one round of games Hamilton & Inverness had 23 pts, United had 22 and Celtic had 20 (though with a game in hand), a couple seasons back Celtic & Motherwell had 22 pts and RangersV1.0 had 19, a couple years before that Celtic on 25, Rangers & United on 22 and Hibs on 21. ...and of course after one run at it everyone goes back to scratch and starts again with nil pointe, with renewed hope and enthusiasm instead of waning interest and a resignation of impending doom and gloom. Problem is (apart from the fact it is never, ever going to be implemented here) that 30 games just isn’t enough and if you go to 17 (18 teams) or 19 games (20 teams) then the chances are that the ex-OFs greater resources will kick in and any benefit from the short season will be diluted or lost by the increased mid-table. Anyway, wuteva... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 14 Team - Once Home and Away - 26 and split 7-7 home and away again - 38 I think we can all agree that this is a sensible option It is a more sensible option, but it would still involve grumbles: notably blank weekends and (vitally) not everyone finishing at the same time, and it needs 40 matchdays even for the clubs in Europe. More broadly, problem with even expanding to 14 is it still involves weakening tier 2, and splitting earlier - potential weather issues, and leaves 'top end bottom split' clubs little to play for. I like it, but it works less nicely than 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 If anyone's interested River Plate play Columbia's Atletico Nacional in the 1st leg of the Copa Sudamerica Final tonight in Medelin you can watch it live on http://www.tvpublica.com.ar/vivo-2/ though kick off is quarter past midnight in the UK 2nd leg from the Monumental is next Wednesday at the same time. It means also the league deciders have been postponed at River's request until Sunday 14th December which has pissed off Racing just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Goals from last night's 1-1 draw in Medelin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxDB1A8uHe0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTomj3gXrUY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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