Friendly Banter?

[Gene Simmons Tongue]

I think you're plain wrong on this.

Do you actually know any fans who do what you claim?

Why would someone travel the best part of 200 miles, with the cost that entails, just to shout abuse at Berwick players?

I've supported Berwick for 38 years and don't miss many games home or away. In that time, i can't think of a single individual who turned up with the express intent of abusing his/her own players. If you make the effort to go and watch Berwick Rangers, surely you do that in the hope of them being successful rather than wanting them to fail?

I think this whole issue is getting blown out of proportion. I also think drawing parallels with the Peterhead incident is a misjudgement. It's closer in subject to what's going on outside the Berwick bubble with the selection of the England world cup squad, where Hodgson is currently railing against a 10,000-strong petition to exclude Tom Cleverly from selection. Is that any different to what we're discussing - the views of supporters about the relative merits of particular players? I don't necessarily agree with the petition but maybe it represents the frustration of supporters who are unable to exert any influence on team selection short of withdrawing their support.

Supporters are often much more knowledgeable about football than they're given credit for, and that includes their assessment of players - though it's rarely taken account of. I can think of occasions in the past where board members, who are no more qualified to comment on a player than Joe Public stood on the terracing, have felt compelled to share their views on players with management when they've had no locus to do that.

The supporter in the stand you refer to sounds like the father of a red-haired BRFC defender* (*not Dougie Brydon). He's gaining a certain degree of notoriety with his er, commentary.

I'll maybe rephrase it and say there are some who will raise their voices to criticise and berate players but never say a word of encouragement week in week out.

I had the misfortune of being in the stand last season next to someone for whom every misplaced pass was the worst thing that he'd ever seem on a pitch and who thought it was funny to shout don't pass to him every 2 minutes.

I can see a player will raise his game if he's getting a bit of jibbing from opposition fans but haven't seen many improve their performance when being told they were "f@climg useless c@nt" by their own fans.

[Razor Bill]

I'll maybe rephrase it and say there are some who will raise their voices to criticise and berate players but never say a word of encouragement week in week out.

I had the misfortune of being in the stand last season next to someone for whom every misplaced pass was the worst thing that he'd ever seem on a pitch and who thought it was funny to shout don't pass to him every 2 minutes.

I can see a player will raise his game if he's getting a bit of jibbing from opposition fans but haven't seen many improve their performance when being told they were "f@climg useless c@nt" by their own fans.

Fair enough. I don't think it's possible, or reasonable, to expect fans to contain their frustration entirely, but we should be able to exercise some control over it. In the course of any normal game I'd expect to find myself backing the team and expressing frustration in equal measure (give or take a few % depending on the player).

It's a tough one this. The biggest frustration for me is the continued lack of improvement on the pitch over the last 5-6 years. I still believe the board have made a good appointment in Colin Cameron. He has the opportunity to build his own team during the summer for next season's campaign. I think the only players who are signed for next season are Andrews, Russell and Paul Currie, so Cameron will have to make approx 15-17 new signings (or re-signings) to put his team together. As a minimum requirement, it must finish in the top 4 in 2014/15. Anything less will be a huge failure.

[marty_j]

There is absolutely NO comparison with Peterhead. To claim there is, is plain nonsense. I have spoken to a few at Annan on Saturday and no one can recall any out of order behaviour apart from a director (?) Neil(?) who had to be carried out of the pub at Annan station because he was asleep.

[marty_j]

Racial abuse if a player is light years away from someone "celebrating" because a player is getting subbed. I totally get your point and in many ways agree but the hurt tapping would be feeling after someone broke the law would be miles away from anything that DL would be feeling.

[john bell]

So in the last two posts, you suggest that

a) my opinion is 'plain nonsense'

b) you can assess the feelings of two individuals that you quite possibly haven't even spoken to

c) another individual that you all but name had the temerity to fall asleep and in doing so was 'out of order' - only you will know why you brought this into topic.

and the point of my post was the showing of respect for one individual to another.........

[marty_j]

John I respect you I really do but really comparing this to racist abuse is plain nonsense. I am actively involved in unite against fascism and racism is a million miles from this incident. To suggest it is in same league dilutes what happened at peterhead, an incident as serious as I can recall at this level. My mention of director was meant to highlight that while (rightly and rightly is important) raising issues about behaviour of supporters behaviour of those representing the club are also poor, believe this was highlighted by P last week.

[marty_j]

He fell asleep because he it appeared he was very very drunk not because he was tried. Was talking point of all brfc fans travelling back and locals in pub.

[Hamster00]

I agree with a lot of what your saying John but I'm afraid this is part and parcel of sport whether it be football, rugby or speedway people will always criticise there own team whether during the event or on forums such as this.

I personally think DL is a good footballer and has just had a poor spell of form and that we missed him at Shire but on Saturday he was just one of many who had a poor game and inevitably when we are losing 4-0 some fans will pick a scapegoat to blame.

Can you say yourself you've never berated a player at either a game or on a forum for poor play it's an emotionally charged sport and everyone gets frustrated in the heat of the moment I'm sure everyone on here has at one point or another.

[heedthebaa]

IMO John, you've lost the fucking plot on this one

[mid-table]

But for me that part of your post relates perfectly back to the point I made earlier - it's as though you can't win sometimes. The Thommo/DL stuff isn't designed to simply wind other fans up. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but the cult hero shite is genuinely designed to boost their confidence, and given both DL's best goalscoring form this season came when the cringeworthy crew was at it's best and given Thommo's best form in the Black and Gold came with the same, I don't understand how fellow fans can have such large complaints.

I do understand what you are saying, it just doesn't sit very comfortably with me.

Imagine you were Thommo. You know you're not the best player in the team, but every time you pass to a team mate you are cheered and songs sung about you. This doesn't happen to any of your colleagues.

Don't know about you but I would feel more than a touch patronised.

[Hamster00]

I do understand what you are saying, it just doesn't sit very comfortably with me.

Imagine you were Thommo. You know you're not the best player in the team, but every time you pass to a team mate you are cheered and songs sung about you. This doesn't happen to any of your colleagues.

Don't know about you but I would feel more than a touch patronised.

But look at Ian Mcaldon he was given cult hero status and didn't only perform well under it he acknowledged the fans and enjoyed the fact he was a cult hero he obviously didn't feel patronised if we can't praise them like this what do you want us to do?

[mid-table]

But look at Ian Mcaldon he was given cult hero status and didn't only perform well under it he acknowledged the fans and enjoyed the fact he was a cult hero he obviously didn't feel patronised if we can't praise them like this what do you want us to do?

Guys like Sammy Leitch, Tommy Graham, Martin Neil were cult heroes.

They were all good players too.

They weren't turned into cult heroes by virtue of them being the weakest player in the team.

Offer as much encouragement as you like, but I feel, and I suspect the recipients may also feel, that there can become a point where it goes beyond genuine encouragement and is just a joke.

[Hamster00]

Guys like Sammy Leitch, Tommy Graham, Martin Neil were cult heroes.

They were all good players too.

They weren't turned into cult heroes by virtue of them being the weakest player in the team.

Offer as much encouragement as you like, but I feel, and I suspect the recipients may also feel, that there can become a point where it goes beyond genuine encouragement and is just a joke.

But I wouldn't consider DL or Thommo to be the weakest players of there respective teams they aren't turned into cult heroes for being the best or the worst some players just attract this look at clubs around the globe there cult heroes aren't always the best players in the squad I can assure you it's not people trying to be patronising or anything.

[A Believer]

Ok, some facts.

Fans pay their money and have the right to shout at anyone they like, and say anything they want; within the law. I agree, I exercise my right every home game and most away ones: more on that later....

The future of the game is grass roots, and continual enlightenment on coaching techniques.

So, to my point.

I coach, and also see great strides in players dietary and psychological needs; that's to encourage not to berate. All parents are asked to subscribe to a charter to role model that ideal.

At grass roots football, education and the workplace, enlightened approach is to identify weaknesses, offer support and encourage repeat of success; simply pointing out the weakness is roundly seen to be counter productive.

You could argue, that's quit right for kids; I'd argue that some players confidence and self esteem may be as frail as a child.

Players that are clearly not engaged, not trying, not working hard enough aside, given the choice of cheering or shouting 'aye, get off, you're rubbish' or 'unlucky big man, keep working hard, it'll come', I'd prefer to exercise my right to build and not erode.

[Melted Cheese]

Players and directors should know better than to post comments on forums and social media. If there is a problem it should be raised on the club website and addressed in the correct manner. What has been achieved by these comments? Certain people need to get there own house in order before pointing the finger at others.

[Gene Simmons Tongue]

Players and directors should know better than to post comments on forums and social media. If there is a problem it should be raised on the club website and addressed in the correct manner. What has been achieved by these comments? Certain people need to get there own house in order before pointing the finger at others.

1 post from you and it's having a dig at people. John clearly stated he was speaking as an individual.

The comments were asking for opinions on a forum which I think is actually what forums are for?

[Hamster00]

1 post from you and it's having a dig at people. John clearly stated he was speaking as an individual.

The comments were asking for opinions on a forum which I think is actually what forums are for?

I agree with what forums are for but when you are involved in the club as a director, coach or player I do think that comments whether they be personal opinion or the clubs opinion should go through the official lines rather than posting on a forum as it can cause more harm than good.

[mid-table]

I agree with what forums are for but when you are involved in the club as a director, coach or player I do think that comments whether they be personal opinion or the clubs opinion should go through the official lines rather than posting on a forum as it can cause more harm than good.

So no-one in the club is allowed to voice any opinions other than the club line?

I'm not sure that's the direction the club should be moving in, unless a relocation to Pyongyang is also on the cards. Maybe that where the new ground is going to be?

[Melted Cheese]

When you represent a football club as a director and wear the club tie you should not be drawn in to debates on a forum or social media. I have nothing against John, he has just opened a can of worms for abuse towards himself and the club. How can he have a go at fans when certain directors cannot behave themselves when on club duty. Everyone can have an opinion, but whe it involves the club employees it should go through the proper channels. When relationships between directors and fans are already fragile I dont think this has helped? Just my opinion.

[BerwickMad]

Are relationships between directors and fans actually fragile?

There seems to be an over sensitivity to opinions and behaviours all over the shop IMO. The worst I've heard this season came from a players family member at Shire towards their announcer. Nearly everything else seems like mountains out of molehills.

Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion. It's only a few years since there were fights in the Ducket with Clydebank fans, people were rolling about at Cowden and Ayr fans were shitting on the floor in the Black and Gold, now all we have to get upset about is a couple of cheers when a player got subbed off, a fake twitter account and farming 'banter'. Jesus Christ man!

Hopefully we all have some good questions about the actual football tomorrow for CC!