HardyBamboo Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 It's also a strange argument as it supposes that an Independent Scotland would have operated in exactly the same way that the Scotland-as-a-part-of-the-UK has. Same policy decisions, same spending decisions, same costs, same... Which is theoretically possible, but not that likely. Might have a greater surplus, might have a deficit... who can say what a variety of governments over 3 decades would have done with the finances. You are absolutely correct here but we know what a variety of governments have done with the money, (waste it), & what could have been done, (invest it for the future). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 You are absolutely correct here but we know what a variety of governments have done with the money, (waste it), & what could have been done, (invest it for the future). Well said, how can you hope to win a debate if you don't mention the disastrous choices that have gone before, folk aren't as stupid as some seem to think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well said, how can you hope to win a debate if you don't mention the disastrous choices that have gone before, folk aren't as stupid as some seem to think they are. And Scottish voters wholly endorsed what Labour got up to. It's excellent seeing a lot of these former Labour voters shuffling away from the rubble they've left behind them and hoping to get another shot at it in a new state. Thankfully it's never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 And Scottish voters wholly endorsed what Labour got up to. It's excellent seeing a lot of these former Labour voters shuffling away from the rubble they've left behind them and hoping to get another shot at it in a new state. Thankfully it's never going to happen. What Labour voters, I was one of those Labour voters in 97, I lasted 6 weeks before I came to the conclusion that I'll never vote for them again, there are plenty of people out there with a similar view point, Labour no longer represents huge swathes of the people that vote for them,once YES manage to get this message across you'll be suffering death by duvet for the weeks after the referendum vote. Perhaps Salmond and Co don't want to score too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 You are absolutely correct here but we know what a variety of governments have done with the money, (waste it), & what could have been done, (invest it for the future). Mmm. But voters are short termists. So are politicians. It's not a benevolent dictatorship with a 30 year lifecycle. Governments have to be re elected, and there are always pressures to spend more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm not talking about estimated figures, I'm talking about the SG producing figures from HMRCs own accounts. So unless the No side wanted to attack the credibilty of their own accounts they would have to accept the validity of them. You're assuming that the UK government will allow the Scottish Government access to HMRC's accounts. It won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 What Labour voters, I was one of those Labour voters in 97, I lasted 6 weeks before I came to the conclusion that I'll never vote for them again, there are plenty of people out there with a similar view point, Labour no longer represents huge swathes of the people that vote for them,once YES manage to get this message across you'll be suffering death by duvet for the weeks after the referendum vote. Perhaps Salmond and Co don't want to score too early. It never really has done though. That it took you 'til 1997 to actually realise you weren't going to be showered with gifts by them is your own particular tragedy. Eventually you'll maybe realise what a load of hokum the SNP are peddling you as well. Maybe. Once YES get the message out there? Yeah. They have only been attempting it for the past couple of years and more. The white paper was meant to be the big game changer and has flopped and been pulled to ribbons bu all and sundry. The Yes campaign is floundering badly, but you are probably too slow to realise this. It may be a few years after the referendum when it dawns on you right enough, but you'll get there in the same manner you got there with Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 You're assuming that the UK government will allow the Scottish Government access to HMRC's accounts. It won't. It's all online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 And Scottish voters wholly endorsed what Labour got up to. It's excellent seeing a lot of these former Labour voters shuffling away from the rubble they've left behind them and hoping to get another shot at it in a new state. Thankfully it's never going to happen. As a former labour voter, it's as plain as the shed in your garden, Reynard, that the Labour party of THEN are in no way similar to the current shambolic mess that purports to be the Labour party today. Tories in red ties, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 As a former labour voter, it's as plain as the shed in your garden, Reynard, that the Labour party of THEN Of when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 It never really has done though. That it took you 'til 1997 to actually realise you weren't going to be showered with gifts by them is your own particular tragedy. Eventually you'll maybe realise what a load of hokum the SNP are peddling you as well. Maybe. Once YES get the message out there? Yeah. They have only been attempting it for the past couple of years and more. The white paper was meant to be the big game changer and has flopped and been pulled to ribbons bu all and sundry. The Yes campaign is floundering badly, but you are probably too slow to realise this. It may be a few years after the referendum when it dawns on you right enough, but you'll get there in the same manner you got there with Labour. How would any 40 something know they were voting in charlatans, we had never lived under a Labour Government in our adult lives, we were more interested in kicking a baw about in those days that watching the adults world. I think I've has enough FPTP party politics if I'm being honest with myself. We now have 2 choices in the UK, The Tories who look after business and deliberately screw the poor and Labour who look after business and inadvertently screw the poor, that's why most people aren't really interested in politics anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 It's all online. How is it all online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 It's also a strange argument as it supposes that an Independent Scotland would have operated in exactly the same way that the Scotland-as-a-part-of-the-UK has. Same policy decisions, same spending decisions, same costs, same... Which is theoretically possible, but not that likely. Might have a greater surplus, might have a deficit... who can say what a variety of governments over 3 decades would have done with the finances. What we do.know for certain is that.the UK will have a deficit for.the next few decades at least. Im voting yes for a chance to reverse this decline. It will.not happen under Westminsters watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Would Reynard like me to work on and post our +/-'s since 1980/81 in real terms adjusted for inflation? We'd have a far far smaller share of the debt if this was ever taken into consideration, we might even be owed cash once QE is taken into account. I won't be putting these in a zipped folder though if you want me to do them, they'll be my new sig so I won't need to post a single word when you post any economic drivel in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 You're assuming that the UK government will allow the Scottish Government access to HMRC's accounts. It won't. And what would the "offical reason" given be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Would Reynard like me to work on and post our +/-'s since 1980/81 in real terms adjusted for inflation? Asking Reynard to handle even basic Primary school level sums is a bad idea: just look at the fail in his signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 And what would the "offical reason" given be? Commercial confidentiality. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Asking Reynard to handle even basic Primary school level sums is a bad idea: just look at the fail in his signature. You don't need to tell me, he seems to think if he leaves the economic arguments for 2 or 3 days I'll just forget about his ineptitude, I am slowly losing my memory but sadly for Reynard it will not deteriorate sufficiently enough for him to seek succour for quite a few years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Commercial confidentiality. Duh. They wouldn't be publishing individal accounts but the sum total of revenue raised in scotland. Labour at the weekend made plenty of arguemnts that a 50p tax brings in more than the current rate - did they publish everyones tax returns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 They wouldn't be publishing individal accounts but the sum total of revenue raised in scotland. Labour at the weekend made plenty of arguemnts that a 50p tax brings in more than the current rate - did they publish everyones tax returns? Google it and see what you can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.