Enigma Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Streamlining the league down to 16 and trying to thrash out a second league with the northern juniors and the NCL clubs seems like the eminently sensible and obvious option. Perhaps a HFL of 16 then two feeder leagues, one east, one west, would work. I take it eastern junior clubs north of the Tay would be welcome/encouraged to join eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 The NCL is on its last legs in numbers terms and it's not clear to what extent north junior clubs share the outlook of their counterparts in the central belt, so it will be interesting to see what unfolds because there are no easy answers. Cove and Fort William are not licensed yet and I think Rothes lost their's late last year but were appealing, so it's not clear that the HL will still have 18 clubs after next season when licensing becomes a requirement for the fifth tier. Losing a club or two that way might ease the pressure in the short term for a year or two but there's still the question of what to do with clubs like Banks o' Dee and Halkirk that want in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Shaker Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Cove more than likely won't achieve a licence until they move house, which is entirely dependent on Aberdeen getting their new ground. IIRC Fort can't do much as they play on a council maintained pitch and need help from them, and why would they bother anyway, as when relegation or restructuring comes to pass they'll be one of the first to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Talking to folk at Lochee recently, there is absolutely no chance that they will join a league which sees them travelling to Fort William, Brora and Wick. Drawing a line at the Tay may work in terms of sending teams down from the spfl but there is no way that it will be happening from the bottom up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 By same token, would they join a league which sees them travelling to Dalbeattie, Gretna and Selkirk? (Or Auchinleck, Girvan and Kello). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Till A Die Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 By same token, would they join a league which sees them travelling to Dalbeattie, Gretna and Selkirk? (Or Auchinleck, Girvan and Kello). Point here. How far are teams willing to travel? How many regional leagues would be needer to keep teams happy? Could we have a North, South, West and East league and the winners of each league go into a semi final playoff format? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Presumably not... It was a compromise for the SFL clubs to give-up their long-standing demand for a nationwide feeder - and it would take you ages to get 4 divisions worth of non-league clubs all with entry licensing, even assuming Junior clubs were prepared to enter in sufficient numbers. That's what my post was getting at, partly... are Tayport against playing in the Highland League, or against playing outside the East Juniors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 It was lochee. And they're against playing in the Highland league because of the distance. I didn't get as far as lowland league. I castigate others now when they start with "it would be better if ..." because the ideal for everyone simply doesn't exist. But as I've said on the lowland league forum, the sheer volume of clubs in the South makes the structure which underpins the pinnacle of the pyramid inherently unfair in terms of time required to work from bottom to top. The Juniors have the right regional set up - North, East and West. To account for the South in that model just draw a line up the M74 bearing in mind that the level immediately below would be further regionalised anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Drawing a line at the Tay may work in terms of sending teams down from the spfl but there is no way that it will be happening from the bottom up. Or the actual geographical and cultural Lowlands - Highlands divide which is that from Loch Lomond to Stonehaven... With Vale of Leven being on the lowland side of course. In the case of any Dundee or Angus team (which are all lowland areas of course), Dalbeattie is a closer away trip than Brora (never mind Wick) with trips to the Central Belt sides being far, far more practical. Auchinleck is also a shorter trip than Fort William. Surely the only way they'd consider Highland over Lowland would be if they considered it an easier route to League 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Was just on Fitba North and the latest appears to be that only Wick and Clach are actually in a position to enter the playoffs at the moment because they are the only clubs with bronze level license floodlights. Combine that with only Spartans having the pieces in place in the LL (albeit with Stirling University likely to follow if they get entry level) and the pro/rel playoff is likely to be sporadic at best for the next few seasons, which may explain why some of the turkeys were willing to vote for the potential early Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Was just on Fitba North and the latest appears to be that only Wick and Clach are actually in a position to enter the playoffs at the moment because they are the only clubs with bronze level license floodlights. Combine that with only Spartans having the pieces in place in the LL (albeit with Stirling University likely to follow if they get entry level) and the pro/rel playoff is likely to be sporadic at best for the next few seasons, which may explain why some of the turkeys were willing to vote for the potential early Christmas. Can you point me in the direction where floodlights must be in place in time for the play-offs? Also how do you know the other clubs with floodlights are not up to standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 SPFL constitution and this P&J article: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/highland-league/245852/new-pyramid-system-for-highland-league/ “Clach and Wick Academy are the only clubs in the league who currently hold the required bronze level standard. “The requirements range from the quality of the floodlights to the provision of club doctors and physiotherapists.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Can you point me in the direction where floodlights must be in place in time for the play-offs? SPFL constitution Wrong? If you look there's actually a specific rule in the SPFL Rulebook - rule D6 - on applications for waiver relaxation or grace. There are such rules for all divisions - but that specifically looks at the "Candidate Club". Various other parts of the rules mention much the same thing for specific aspects. (Also I don't actually see any rule about stopping the playoff, just preventing the non-league club coming-up if successful, although logically if they didn't meet the criteria and couldn't/wouldn't/hadn't applied for grace etc. you don't imagine they'd actually bother playing it surely). That's not to say that any grace/etc. would be granted, but that's not to say it wouldn't be either. This used to happen in the SPL, when clubs without USH would get to install it during the summer. It wasn't unknown in SFL either: when Annan Athletic joined the SFL in 2008 they didn't have any floodlights at all, and they only rose skyward in late August, IIRC. Inverness were even able to groundshare Pittodrie. So although Clach & Wick may be the only clubs currently set-to-go, AFAICS that doesn't automatically exclude everyone else from-the-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Can't see anything in the spfl rules or articles that state that. The p&j article isn't particularly well written, it also doesn't cover the LL grounds, gretna for example are highly likely to be ok on the floodlight front, and I suspect the teams with 3G surfaces will be fine too, given they are typically set up with an additional set of floodlights. Edit - this was in reply to LongTimeLurker, not HibieeJibee, who covered it fairly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Also it should be noted Improvements in floodlights over pre-season is something that has been done by clubs like Ayr and Cowdenbeath in order to get promoted fairly recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 In the P&J article the procedure is stated by Finlay Noble of the HL as being all title challengers have to make an application for SPFL entry by Jan 31st (this appears to be mandatory but the application can be withdrawn on Mar 31st if the title challenge falters) and they then get into the playoffs subject to winning their league and meeting the membership requirements, which may well have some caveats attached where mandatory requirements are concerned. At the end of the P&J article there appears to be a similar process envisioned for junior clubs (including Tayside ones) where getting into the HL is concerned , but the details are not fully explained. Part of becoming licensed is that an application is made to join the HL, which presumably (I am moving into speculation at this point) means that they become eligible for a playoff with the bottom placed HL club if they are entry level licensed by the SFA and win their league. Probably leaves Lithgae with difficult decisions down the road on the LL, but is unlikely to be seen as an impediment by a club like Haddington Athletic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburns Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I expect some form of ground share arrangement would be able to be arranged for a club who get promoted but don't have the necessary ground requirements for League 2. For example should any of the Tayside teams join the Highland League and get Promoted an arrangement with Dundee Dundee Utd and/or Arbroath that would see them play at their grounds week about and avoiding fixture clashes may happen that would see them use their grounds until there's were brought up to scratch. However, I'm fairly sure Dundee Violet and Downfield (as both have 1 seated stand and some form of lighting) both have the ground requirements for League 2 if they chose to enter the Highland League and win it and the playoffs. Unsure about Lochee Utd and any of the other local Tayside and Angus teams grounds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 HL website clarifying what the exact situation is. http://www.highlandfootballleague.com/News/Item/434_The_Pyramid_System_and_how_it_affects_the_SHFL.aspx The Pyramid System and how it affects the SHFLSummary Notes on SHFL Pyramid SystemJanuary 31st – all clubs capable of becoming League Champions (based on points total & number of games to play ) identify themselves By March 31st- all potential League Champions apply to SPFL for membership (clubs unable to achieve championship status need not apply) Application - clubs will detail their ability to comply with entry requirements as per SPFL Rules and confirm club’s willingness to comply with Rules on an on-going basis Pyramid Play-Off Competition a. League Champions of SHFL and SLFL compete home and away on agreed dates, organised by the SFAHome team in first match to be decided by a SFA supervised draw b. Winner plays “Club 42” from SPFL, home and away, organised by SPFL at a date and time determined by the SPFL Board , with Club 42 having home advantage in second leg c. Winner of this tie will become a member of SPFL and play in SPFL League 2 d. If Club 42 loses tie, they will be relegated to SHFL if ground is north of Latitude 56,4513N e. The winning club in play off competitions will be the club which scores the most goals over two legs. If aggregate scores are equal after second tie, extra time of 15 minutes each way will be played and thereafter penalty kicks to determine the winner f. If either the SHFL or SLFL Champion Club does not meet with SPFL membership criteria, and no waiver is granted by the SPFL Board, no play off will take place. The other Champion Club meeting the criteria will play Club 42 as per b above g. If neither Champion club complies with any part of the membership criteria as determined by the SPFL Board, there will be no play off competition and Club 42 will retain their place in SPFL League 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 The remaining question might be whether a club like Brora Rangers can be handed a waiver regardless of whether they actually request one? The ability and willingness to be promoted into the SPFL was initially supposed to be mandatory for all HL and LL clubs from what I remember, but things would have ground to a halt if that had been carved in stone. The lux value of a set of floodlights would be a very lame reason to avoid/deny promotion to the bottom two tiers of the SPFL now that they will seldom be televised barring another financial meltdown at Ibrox. Different scenario with LL clubs that have no lights at all obviously. Edit: the Latitude 56,4513N also means that the Tay can't be used as the yardstick. Perth clubs wind up in the Lowland League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Albeit both the Perth clubs - Jeanfield Swifts and Kinnoull - are South of the Tay, as are Luncarty, slightly to the north of the Fair City. AFAIC, the only oddity caused by the use of a line of longitude rather than literally "the River Tay" is that Scone, on the north bank, are in the LL area. However, I suspect the chances of St Johnstone ever falling to tier 5 - or any of those Juniors ever reaching the LL - are exceptionally slim anyway, tbh. Technically, this would also mean that should a team from Oban ever reach tier 5, it would play in the LL. Assuming the regulation was still in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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