The role of the media in #indyref

[Marshmallo]

The Gini coefficient is a shite measure of inequality anyway.

[HardyBamboo]

It isn't as bad as the left always tell us though as the figures in my signature clearly show.

And the UK is also better off in terms of equality than a lot of the scandinavian outfits so beloved of the NCC as well as France and Germany which are similar sized economies. Although I expect the French will possibly close up as they all become poorer as a result of Hollandes socialism and the effect of all their rich people fucking off elsewhere to get away from his tax punishment of success.

From the CIA World Factbook - https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html;

GINI In Reverse Order (less equal first)

UK = 39.7 (2007)

Ireland = 33.9 (2010)

France = 32.7 (2008)

Holland = 30.9 (2007)

Belgium = 28.0 (2005)

Germany = 27.0 (2006)

Norway = 25.0 (2008)

Denmark = 24.8 (2011 est)

Sweden = 23.0 (2005)

[vikingTON]

Now, having systematically dismantled the last shreds of Reynard's credibility yesterday, it would be positively lazy to merely copy and past today rather than provide another good old shoeing of the resident shed-dweller while he's utterly, hopelessly, out of his depth. So... let's try the OECD, and it's take on the Gini co-efficient and national income inequality:

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/factbook-2011-en/03/05/01/index.html?itemId=/content/chapter/factbook-2011-31-en%20

Appendix 1: The summary.

There is considerable variation in income inequality across OECD countries. Inequality as measured by the Gini coefficient is lowest in Slovenia, Denmark and Norway and highest in Chile, Mexico and Turkey. It is above-average in Israel, Portugal and the United States, and below-average in the remaining Nordic and many Continental European countries. The Gini coefficient for the most unequal country (Chile) is double the value of the most equal country (Slovenia). Overall, the different measures of income inequalities provide similar ranking across countries.

From the mid-1980s to the late-2000s, inequality rose in 15 out of 19 countries. The increase was strongest in Finland, New Zealand and Sweden. Declines occurred in France, Greece, and Turkey. Income inequality generally rose faster from the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s than in the following period.

Strange that the OECD's expert analysis completely contradicts the view of a man living in a shed as to the relatively low inequality of the Scandinavian model, not to mention that of models across continental Europe. The UK, interestingly, isn't mentioned whatsoever? Perhaps the OECD couldn't measure inequality in such a go-getter economic powerhourse?

Well, it did actually.

Appendix 2: The Figures.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/download/3011041ec031.pdf?expires=1390303583&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=E2A16F3D53A1185649EFE1D2E2299BCC

The table on Page 81 compiles the Gini coefficient of 34 developed countries - including the UK - in a manner only a particularly stupid resident of Ayrshire could fail to grasp. Surprisingly for the virulent anti-Marxist frothers, Slovenia tops the pile, with both parts of former Czechoslovakia in the top 5. But around those debatable entrants are the usual suspects.

Denmark: 2nd

Norway: 3rd

Sweden: 7th

Finland: 8th

Ireland: 13th

Iceland: 16th

Ah, but those wee diddy countries aren't a meaningful comparison for the UK (though self-evidently ought to be for an independent Scotland) - surely the UK holds its own against other major European economies? Well... no actually:

France: 12th

Germany: 15th

Spain: 22nd

Italy: 27th

The UK in fact slithers into 28th/34 developed countries in terms of income equality, as measured by the exact same statistic Reynard has attempted to use to argue the opposite. This is because he's really, really thick.

Who does the UK beat in the world's shittest relegation battle?

28: UK

29: Portugal (The ony European country to perform worse than the UK)

30: Israel

31: US

32: Turkey

33: Mexico

34: Chile

So erm yes, the UK is in fact fighting it out to be the least equal society in the developed world with the victims of drug cartels, military dictatorships, the world's most incompetent social security system and a ragtag of peripheral states.

Gutted for you.

[H_B]

I don't usually buy in to BBC bias on this, but the slant on this story is ridiculous: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25820250

An argument against independence is that the UK is already an inequal society, so Scotland would have to work to reduce this? WHIT

Agreed. There was a fairly bizarre interview on Radio Scotland this morning with the Stirling Uni guy who led the work.

His point, quite correctly, was that you'd need massive changes to the Labour market to bring about changes to wage inequality. "We are where we are" was really the point - we can't turn ourselves into a Norway or Sweden - we're too far down the line to do that.

How do you half GP salaries in Scotland for example?

[Marshmallo]

Agreed. There was a fairly bizarre interview on Radio Scotland this morning with the Stirling Uni guy who led the work.

His point, quite correctly, was that you'd need massive changes to the Labour market to bring about changes to wage inequality. "We are where we are" was really the point - we can't turn ourselves into a Norway or Sweden - we're too far down the line to do that.

How do you half GP salaries in Scotland for example?

We could perhaps turn ourselves into a Norway or Sweden down the line. Depends on what your motivation is going into the referendum and how long term a view you want to take.

[H_B]

We could perhaps turn ourselves into a Norway or Sweden down the line. Depends on what your motivation is going into the referendum and how long term a view you want to take.

We could perhaps introduce something along the lines of the "highest earner can only be a max of 20x lower earner" ) similar to Scandinavia - I'd like to see that.

It would be difficult for us to address salary differentials a la Scandinavia if rUK didn't alongside us though.

Imagine if you qualify as a doctor and your Scottish salary was going to be 45K a year - you could get twice that if you worked in Newcastle.

[ayrmad]

We could perhaps introduce something along the lines of the "highest earner can only be a max of 20x lower earner" ) similar to Scandinavia - I'd like to see that.

It would be difficult for us to address salary differentials a la Scandinavia if rUK didn't alongside us though.

Imagine if you qualify as a doctor and your Scottish salary was going to be 45K a year - you could get twice that if you worked in Newcastle.

Can we not just strive to raise the income of those at the bottom of the pile?

The problem in this country is those at the top thinking they're succeeding on their own, ie take huge salaries and bonuses while tying workers up to shite contracts on the minimum wage or thereabouts.

[H_B]

Can we not just strive to raise the income of those at the bottom of the pile?

Got to be paid for from somewhere. The reason Scandinavian countries can offer higher salaries for traditionally more menial jobs is because their salaries for supposedly top professions are lower.

Can't have one without the other.

[Davi3j]

Got to be paid for from somewhere. The reason Scandinavian countries can offer higher salaries for traditionally more menial jobs is because their salaries for supposedly top professions are lower.

Can't have one without the other.

So why don't these top professionals up sticks and move elsewhere, like the UK?

[git-intae-thum]

Not seen this on the thread:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/reporting-scotland-censured.23187864

Even the BBC themselves find their own reporting in Scotland biased.

Now the original lies on the Distorting Scotland broadcast were seen by hundreds of thousands. Funnnily enough no mainstream media outlet barring the Herald has chosen to showcase the truth.

Certainly haven't seen this mentioned on the tele or any kind of retraction from the sham that is BBC Scotland.

[Burma]

Not seen this on the thread:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/reporting-scotland-censured.23187864

Even the BBC themselves find their own reporting in Scotland biased.

Now the original lies on the Distorting Scotland broadcast were seen by hundreds of thousands. Funnnily enough no mainstream media outlet barring the Herald has chosen to showcase the truth.

Certainly haven't seen this mentioned on the tele or any kind of retraction from the sham that is BBC Scotland.

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/8608-trust-refuses-to-ask-bbc-scotland-to-apologise-for-misleading-viewers-over-key-eu-issue

And you wont....the blackout continues.

[ayrmad]

Got to be paid for from somewhere. The reason Scandinavian countries can offer higher salaries for traditionally more menial jobs is because their salaries for supposedly top professions are lower.

Can't have one without the other.

Nonsense.

[HardyBamboo]

From Derek Bateman;

http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/01/22/breaking-newsbbc-threatens-academic/

Breaking News…BBC threatens academic

Fascinating to see the BBC’s priorities revealed so nakedly tonight when Pacific Quay management contacted the University of the West of Scotland to object to the UWS Bias in Broadcasting reporthttp://issuu.com/creative_futur/docs/robertson2014fairnessinthefirstyear which, as far as I can see, they didn’t have the courage to broadcast.

Instead of doing what any self-confident public service broadcaster should do and producing a news item out of a critical report from one of our own universities, they seem to have hidden it from the licence-fee paying public who bankroll them and then mounted a sabotage operation against the author.

[Colkitto]

From Derek Bateman;

http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/01/22/breaking-newsbbc-threatens-academic/

Breaking News…BBC threatens academic

Fascinating to see the BBC’s priorities revealed so nakedly tonight when Pacific Quay management contacted the University of the West of Scotland to object to the UWS Bias in Broadcasting reporthttp://issuu.com/creative_futur/docs/robertson2014fairnessinthefirstyear which, as far as I can see, they didn’t have the courage to broadcast.

Instead of doing what any self-confident public service broadcaster should do and producing a news item out of a critical report from one of our own universities, they seem to have hidden it from the licence-fee paying public who bankroll them and then mounted a sabotage operation against the author.

This is quite alarming stuff!

[ayrmad]

This is quite alarming stuff!

No it's not, it's exactly what any critical thinking adult would expect from such an organisation nowadays, it shouldn't be the way but it most definitely is.

[H_B]

Nonsense.

Riggggght...

So you are going to uplift the salaries of cleaners to be 20K a year, whilst still paying GPs 100K a year.

Are you taking some magic beans to market to pay for it?

[Baxter Parp]

Riggggght...

So you are going to uplift the salaries of cleaners to be 20K a year, whilst still paying GPs 100K a year.

Are you taking some magic beans to market to pay for it?

Minimum wage going to be £10.25 is it?

[ayrmad]

Riggggght...

So you are going to uplift the salaries of cleaners to be 20K a year, whilst still paying GPs 100K a year.

Are you taking some magic beans to market to pay for it?

No,you develop your economy over a long period of time, you don't appear to look beyond the end of your nose when you're looking at independence.

Your other wee one liner about tuition fees just highlights this.

[H_B]

No,you develop your economy over a long period of time

Oh, I see. How long is this period of time to be?

So over this "long period of time" how exactly are you planning to have lower paid occupations on a Scandinavian level of salary, whilst having higher paid occupations retaining a UK level salary?

[ayrmad]

Oh, I see. How long is this period of time to be?

So over this "long period of time" how exactly are you planning to have lower paid occupations on a Scandinavian level of salary, whilst having higher paid occupations retaining a UK level salary?

As long as it takes.