The role of the media in #indyref

[Kejan]

There's a heck of a lot of apathy out there too.

I've met many people over Christmas who are voting no or just cannot be arsed at all.

The media are horrible alright, but I just don't think there is enough support for independence with the general public. With the likes of even Montenegro where it was a very close referendum, I always felt Scotland would be like this either 45-55 either way, but I can't even see Yes getting 40% now.

Poll after poll have shown that women don't want it, the new voters don't, the auld codgers don't then you are left with 25-40 year olds who do seem to poll high.

We're going to need a heck of a bounce to win this thing. The media are most definitely biased and we all know that.

Scottish people in general are very apathetic overall about things. The frustrating thing is I've met many who ''I'd vote yes, but...'' or the ''Am as Scottish as...'' when the push comes to it Independence just doesn't seem to matter to many a folk. There's plenty of pdfs, websites, forums out there for these people, but they just cannot be arsed. They are headline readers and that's all it is - and when the bbc, the press are filled with negativity, they are going to take a lot of their views/opinion from this.

Suppose we'll see when these debates, discussions pick up next year along with the Commy games, Ryder Cup - and if the Tories poll well, then we'll maybe see some change, but right now, I don't know, I just don't feel optimistic about a Yes vote being returned.

Again, I hope to god, I'm wrong, and I didn't think the SNP would win that huge majority in 2011, but this is a different form.

[DjembaDjemba]

Its very sad, there could be nothing more important to the people of Scotland, but they have been trained their whole lives to have low self-esteem and be apathetic about such things. Fear will win and we will end up with Boris as PM. I think I will probably end up leaving Scotland after the referendum.

[Jamaldo]

To Kejan and DjembaDjemba, I want to say that this time last year I had the exact same feelings as you guys. I didn't believe it would happen despite my strong support for it.

My feelings are different now though. Although I still have weeks where I feel a bit despondent about the whole thing my overall view is that we have a great chance. However, this will only be possible if we get out there and make the case. If we all sit on our hands and hope for the best it isn't going to happen. The next nine months are going to be hard work.

I genuinely can't believe anyone could be so daft that they would believe the lies of the mainstream media, but unfortunately there are some people like that. We just have to make sure that the majority of people come next September won't be in that camp.

[DjembaDjemba]

I just don't see it, would love to but I just don't see any way a yes vote can be achieved

[Kaz]

I'm with Djembadjemba on this one I'm afraid. When you take into account the elderly, the bigoted, women, the content, imaginationless middle class, the risk averse, the relentlessly negative, and the huge number of people who think they're being really clever and different by 'hating'Alex Salmond and being cynical about the prospect of aspiring to anything better than the current system, we have absolutely no chance.

This isn't about objectively looking at facts and arguments and reaching a decision. Most intelligent people on here know that those voting no are doing so out of an emotional attachment to a Union which exists only in their own minds. This is the reason why most refuse to make the positive case for the Union and are incapable of arguing their points to the end. But the sad reality is that a huge number of people are going to make their decision on this basis. I just can't see enough people suddenly becoming engaged with politics or being prepared to listen to the facts just because a referendum is round the corner. Most people will think what they are told to think by BBC and the Daily Record.

Why anyone on the yes side is encouraging a high turnout I really don't know. And why we pushed for 16/17 year olds to have a vote is another mystery. This group, purely from anecdotal evidence, seem paticularly easily led by the mainstream media. I don't care if giving them the vote is the 'right'thing to do, I would be delighted if Yes won using the filthiest tactics imaginable, no one is going to look back as we get shafted by Westminster and say well at least we played fair.

I'm full of admiration for those working hard on the ground and I hope I'm wrong. I'm trying to do my bit through social media but it appears a lot of people are simply going to stick their heads in the sand and let the BBC do their thinking for them.

[DjembaDjemba]

Do you want to join me in a campaign of terrorism against Westminster post referendum? We won't have balaclavas but I have a snood you can borrow

[ayrmad]

Can we take a wee break from the knicker-wetting, this campaign hasn't even started in earnest yet, at the moment YES has approximately a 20% chance of success, that's not an insurmountable position to overcome and we've witnessed everything NO has to offer.

[ayrmad]

Do you want to join me in a campaign of terrorism against Westminster post referendum? We won't have balaclavas but I have a snood you can borrow

I know your not being serious but I wouldn't be posting that nonsense in a public forum.

[10 CC ICT]

I know your not being serious but I wouldn't be posting that nonsense in a public forum.

Westminster is visiting social terrorism on us so why not?

[pandarilla]

I'm split between bouts of optimism and general despondency about our chances.

I'm damn sure that I'm going to give it my best shot and persuade as many people as I can to vote Yes. The point made above about every Yes voter only having to win round one other person is a valid one. Of course its going to be difficult but we have to throw everything we have at this - we won't get another chance at this for a long time.

I reckon women and the 16-17 year olds are most likely to turn. The elderly quite often have a strong connection to the war and understandably will not be persuaded to give that up. The negative fuckers out there are usually so far beyond reason that they'll inhale all the scare stories and just regurgitate them ad nauseam.

There's plenty of folk out there who can be won round with the right approach. We have to be positive, passionate, and armed with facts and reason. Lecturing folk or slagging off the other side won't work.

[ayrmad]

Westminster is visiting social terrorism on us so why not?

Because he'll just attract some security nutter.

[Colkitto]

I just don't see it, would love to but I just don't see any way a yes vote can be achieved

[ddfg]

It would help if the SNP gave the media some hard facts to report on. They are getting caught out with half truths about Europe all the time which makes it shootie in for anyone out to portray them in a bad light. I'm a no but could be swayed with some honesty but so far all I'm hearing is half hearted promises with nothing to back them up. Will we be in Europe, what will our currency be, what happens when the oil runs out, if they could give definitive answers to these and other questions it would be much more difficult for the media to have a go.

[Baxter Parp]

It would help if the SNP gave the media some hard facts to report on. They are getting caught out with half truths about Europe all the time which makes it shootie in for anyone out to portray them in a bad light. I'm a no but could be swayed with some honesty but so far all I'm hearing is half hearted promises with nothing to back them up. Will we be in Europe, what will our currency be, what happens when the oil runs out, if they could give definitive answers to these and other questions it would be much more difficult for the media to have a go.

The media have hard facts to report on, it chooses not to.

[Kaz]

It would help if the SNP gave the media some hard facts to report on. They are getting caught out with half truths about Europe all the time which makes it shootie in for anyone out to portray them in a bad light. I'm a no but could be swayed with some honesty but so far all I'm hearing is half hearted promises with nothing to back them up. Will we be in Europe, what will our currency be, what happens when the oil runs out, if they could give definitive answers to these and other questions it would be much more difficult for the media to have a go.

I don't believe that you are undecided. You are a typical no voter. I think it was Swampy who pointed it out on another thread, but it's amazing how people like yourself become hard nosed political sceptics when discussing SNP policy, but time and time again give Westminster a free pass. Nothing in life is certain. None of us know what's going to happen tomorrow in our own lives or in politics. 20 years ago, could you have predicted the UK government involving us in 2 pointless, expensive wars? Could you have predicted the pension age rising? Could you have predicted the Royal Mail/NHS being sold off? Could you have predicted the huge increase in the need for foodbanks? Could you have predicted an 11% payrise for politicians when the rest of the country is struggling? Could you have predicted the economic crash? Being part of a larger union didn't protect us or give us certainty about any of those things.

What you can do though is look at the past behaviour of all parties and the future intentions of all parties and make an educated guess as to who is likely to serve the future of Scotland best. For example, does Westminster or Holyrood have a better record of managing a budget properly? Would Westminster or Holyrood be more likely to make decisions which expose us or shield us from boom/bust economics? Which government is more likely to make the best use of the remaining oil? These are just a few examples.

Unionists don't want to address these sort of questions honestly. They want to sit back and concern troll like you have just done. I've changed my mind on this recently and can now see why a lot of people on the yes side simply cannot be bothered trying to have a reasonable discussion with such trolls with their strange little emotional attachment to the Unionist family, and prefer to focus on those who are genuinely interested in listening and discussing things properly.

[deky]

Enough.

f**k the media.

If you believe in independence go out and tell everyone you know why, with as much passion and conviction as you can muster.

The arguments are there to be made, it's up to us to make them.

If we don't get there at least we tried.

If we do get there, the media inm Scotland will be dead.

Just another reason to vote YES!

[DjembaDjemba]

It would help if the SNP gave the media some hard facts to report on. They are getting caught out with half truths about Europe all the time which makes it shootie in for anyone out to portray them in a bad light. I'm a no but could be swayed with some honesty but so far all I'm hearing is half hearted promises with nothing to back them up. Will we be in Europe, what will our currency be, what happens when the oil runs out, if they could give definitive answers to these and other questions it would be much more difficult for the media to have a go.

You do realise the oil will still run out if we are part of the UK right? Except independent we get 9 times as much money from it in the mean time

[WILLIEA]

Unionists don't want to address these sort of questions honestly. They want to sit back and concern troll like you have just done. I've changed my mind on this recently and can now see why a lot of people on the yes side simply cannot be bothered trying to have a reasonable discussion with such trolls with their strange little emotional attachment to the Unionist family, and prefer to focus on those who are genuinely interested in listening and discussing things properly.

So, basically just preaching to the converted?

That''ll get you far!

[10 CC ICT]

Unionists don't want to address these sort of questions honestly. They want to sit back and concern troll like you have just done. I've changed my mind on this recently and can now see why a lot of people on the yes side simply cannot be bothered trying to have a reasonable discussion with such trolls with their strange little emotional attachment to the Unionist family, and prefer to focus on those who are genuinely interested in listening and discussing things properly.

So, basically just preaching to the converted?

That''ll get you far!

So what your saying is that those who are interested and discuss it are all converted? Happy days!!!

Incidentally, the Scotsman's website is running a poll on it's website when you navigate it.

Keep it clean,concise and objective please. They might be interested what folk think of them.

[H_B]

I'll try asking you a question and see if you can give an honest answer. Do you believe that the media is impartial in the way it is reporting the referendum campaign? And by media I mean the mainstream media that is available to the people in Scotland

I don't read newspapers .

I also don't take my worldview from idiot journalists, so I couldn't really care less what the media reports on the issue.

I have no idea how partial or impartial the media are on this niche issue. I suspect it depends on the views of the journalists and editorial slant of the newspaper itself.