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9 hours ago, sophia said:

That's the point, it's 50/50 just at the moment and to present it as anything different portrays a fear.

I'm not so sure I agree with @John Lambies Doos but they do raise the question of risk, do we grasp this opportunity or consolidate?

Stopping at Derby and where we are in 2022 goes to the heart of it and I'm not sure I have a firm view on strategy.

Consolidate is the rational answer. The 58% will come 10 years from now.

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There are so many reasons to have Indy2 now, not the least being the huge loss of support for the SNPif they don’t follow through on their mandate.

I don’t accept that we will necessarily be in a better place 10 years from now.  The last decade has shown not only the level but the rate of change in the political landscape and I think we’re better taking our chances now.

I’m encouraged by the polls and think there is still more momentum for the YES campaign.

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I think now is a time when it can be won with a good campaign, it cant be taken for granted that the indy vote will grow with time and demographics. Though it may be the case that it does.

The young generations coming up in future may look on the indy topic as boring by then if nothing has happened and all they hear are the clowns on either side speaking for years on it. 

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47 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I think now is a time when it can be won with a good campaign, it cant be taken for granted that the indy vote will grow with time and demographics. Though it may be the case that it does.

The young generations coming up in future may look on the indy topic as boring by then if nothing has happened and all they hear are the clowns on either side speaking for years on it. 

I agree, a lot of younger people who were ardent in 2014 or more specifically, the aftermath of 2014 are turned off by the whole thing. You only need to look at AUOB marches to see the drop off in interest.

Indy needs to run a great campaign,  way better than 2014 IMO, we need to engage, have answers to every question- currency, EU, our future relationship with rUK, obviously it’ll be down to the SNP to bring forward the answers, but it’s up to all Independence supporters to become activists. We cannot rely on demographics. This really is our last chance- for way more than a generation, if we shit it this time, it’s dead in the water for most people who post on here now. Get active. 

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1 minute ago, Brother Blades said:

I agree, a lot of younger people who were ardent in 2014 or more specifically, the aftermath of 2014 are turned off by the whole thing. You only need to look at AUOB marches to see the drop off in interest.

I don't think the drop off of AUOB numbers is anything other than people waking up to AUOB

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35 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I don't think the drop off of AUOB numbers is anything other than people waking up to AUOB

I disagree, the people I know who were regulars haven’t recognised AUOB, they are just turned off by the whole thing, it’s sad. But true. These people aren’t politically active or even aware, they just got caught up in the post 2014 avalanche. To win in 2023, these people need to be re-engaged & think they are part of a movement. It’s not the politically aware that will push us over the line, it’s the people who need to be motivated & think they are on the winning side. 

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5 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

I disagree, the people I know who were regulars haven’t recognised AUOB, they are just turned off by the whole thing, it’s sad. But true. These people aren’t politically active or even aware, they just got caught up in the post 2014 avalanche. To win in 2023, these people need to be re-engaged & think they are part of a movement. It’s not the politically aware that will push us over the line, it’s the people who need to be motivated & think they are on the winning side. 

Ye. I think we should leave it a few more years. Denying the youngsters who will vote for it seems a tad selfish, when we lose again. Which is a nailed on certainty right now., Unfortunately.

 

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8 hours ago, GTee said:

Ye. I think we should leave it a few more years. Denying the youngsters who will vote for it seems a tad selfish, when we lose again. Which is a nailed on certainty right now., Unfortunately.

 

Polls reckon it's a dead heat, currently.

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13 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

I disagree, the people I know who were regulars haven’t recognised AUOB, they are just turned off by the whole thing, it’s sad. But true. These people aren’t politically active or even aware, they just got caught up in the post 2014 avalanche. To win in 2023, these people need to be re-engaged & think they are part of a movement. It’s not the politically aware that will push us over the line, it’s the people who need to be motivated & think they are on the winning side. 

It's the white collar, middle class who need to be persuaded to give Yes the necessary voters coalition. I think that's the tipping point.

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13 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

I disagree, the people I know who were regulars haven’t recognised AUOB, they are just turned off by the whole thing, it’s sad. But true. These people aren’t politically active or even aware, they just got caught up in the post 2014 avalanche. To win in 2023, these people need to be re-engaged & think they are part of a movement. It’s not the politically aware that will push us over the line, it’s the people who need to be motivated & think they are on the winning side. 

Folk turned there back on AUOB as the leaders were dipping into the pot and they jumped on the anti Sturgeon Alba band wagon backing Salmond and Wings even though they were supposedly an all encompassing YES grassroots movement.

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24 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

If people think a change to Labour will magically change the road the UK is currently on they're in for a shock.

Said it before and will say it again, there is only one change in the law that will stop the repeat of the last 10 years and it’s not one that the Labour Party is committed to.  That change is ditching FPTP for PR.  It would mean the end of extreme governments being elected with huge majorities on 40 something percent of the vote.

That would create a more consensus type of government that could may be try to fix things and allow longer-term planning without worrying about a complete change at the end of a five year election cycle.

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15 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Said it before and will say it again, there is only one change in the law that will stop the repeat of the last 10 years and it’s not one that the Labour Party is committed to.  That change is ditching FPTP for PR.  It would mean the end of extreme governments being elected with huge majorities on 40 something percent of the vote.

That would create a more consensus type of government that could may be try to fix things and allow longer-term planning without worrying about a complete change at the end of a five year election cycle.

I agree. However PR doesn't always guarantee this. New Zealand's last election saw a massive victory for Labour. Removing the requirement for a coalition with the Greens and New Zealand First.

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2 hours ago, madmitch said:

I agree. However PR doesn't always guarantee this. New Zealand's last election saw a massive victory for Labour. Removing the requirement for a coalition with the Greens and New Zealand First.

They effectively got 50% of the vote.  Any party who gets this deserves to form a government on their own.

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