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[Duries Air Freshener]

2 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

1) The dinosaur denying DUP have 8 seats at Westminster. That's only around 318 short of a majority. An irrelevance. The Tories, however, want to renege upon international treaties that they signed only a matter of months ago. Disgraceful & duplicitous behaviour.

2) Did you miss Boris Johnson forbidding Indyref 2 in the last week or so? Do keep up.

3) Does the EU appoint parliamentarians on a hereditary basis? Does the EU allow religious organisations to directly appoint parliamentarians? Please tell me why you consider the EU to be undemocratic to the core, with specific reference to their electoral practices.

1- They have the ear of those Tories who cherish the Union though, and have the leverage of being able to delay a return to Stormont.  It's a lot more complex than them simply 'reneging on a treaty.

2- No, I didn't, but that's not denying democracy.  Sarcastic remarks don't suit you by the way.

3- No, the EU doesn't appoint parliamentarians on a hereditary basis.  That's not what I'm referring to.

Why is the EU undemocratic? The EU commission for starters!  All commissioners unelected and unaccountable.  Making countries vote til they get the 'right' answer is another example.

[lichtgilphead]

27 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

1- They have the ear of those Tories who cherish the Union though, and have the leverage of being able to delay a return to Stormont.  It's a lot more complex than them simply 'reneging on a treaty.

2- No, I didn't, but that's not denying democracy.  Sarcastic remarks don't suit you by the way.

3- No, the EU doesn't appoint parliamentarians on a hereditary basis.  That's not what I'm referring to.

Why is the EU undemocratic? The EU commission for starters!  All commissioners unelected and unaccountable.  Making countries vote til they get the 'right' answer is another example.

1) Why bring up Stormont? It doesn't have responsibility for constitutional matters, just like Holyrood and the Senned. In addition, with the Tory majority, they can (and will) sell the DUP down the river, just like they did before.

Incidentally, aren't the DUP planning to insist on running Stormont elections over & over until they get their way? That seems worse to me than the EU asking Ireland to run a referendum again after giving the Irish some sweeteners, like they did in the early 2000's.

2) The winners of an election are entitled to enact their manifesto. It is undemocratic to deny this.

What sarcasm, by the way? I honestly thought that you might have forgotten all the section 30 requests, as they didn't feature in your response.

3) Apart from the clerics & the hereditary peers, the House of Lords has a third category of membership. They are known as "life peers". Just like the EU commissioners, they are appointed by the Government of the day, and are unelected & unaccountable. 

I've already addressed the "vote until you get it right" question above. In every case, the UK's current system of Government is more corrupt and less accountable than the EU's. No wonder people want out.

[Salt n Vinegar]

18 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Showing your inferiority complex, I’m afraid.

Who cares how someone talks or what they wear or, indeed looks slim?

Inferiority complex? Aye, very good. 

JRM is one or those irritating gits who seems to think folk ought to be impressed by the front they put on. His "aura" is used to give his arguments force that they lack, as was displayed when his vaccinations/EU membership bollox was called out on newsnight.  BoJo having got Brexit done is another one of his favourites, despite it being nothing of the sort. 

Talking rubbish in a bools in the mooth accent might convince sycophantic traditionalists that their "betters" are born to rule, but it doesn't impress me in the least. 

Sometimes the mask slips. I understand that Tory MP Miriam Cates said "we in the ruling class" when appearing on the BBC last week. That sense of entitlement might appeal to some, but not to me. 

[Caledonian1]

16 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Something akin to this would be good.  Quite realistic too.

would Starmer stick to his "no deal with the SNP" and happily make us all endure another 5 years of Tory rule?  He would be mental if he did.

[MONKMAN]

The SNP holding the balance of power would put Starmer into Downing Street, regardless of a deal or not.

[Granny Danger]

40 minutes ago, Caledonian1 said:

would Starmer stick to his "no deal with the SNP" and happily make us all endure another 5 years of Tory rule?  He would be mental if he did.

IMO the SNP would have to make a Section 30 commitment a precondition of any support.  Anything else would be pointless.

[Self-raising Lazarus]

I am loathe to agree with the right, but I do understand euroskepticism.

Cases such as the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties should have been put to every member states population through a ballot, as ultimately its for the population to decide whether they agree or disagree with the treaty.

And its fair to say from the actions of Germany during the Eurozone crisis democracy and transparency are not high on their agenda. 

However in saying that, the only reason we left the EU is to dismantle any positives the UK population gained through EU membership.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I am loathe to agree with the right, but I do understand euroskepticism.
Cases such as the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties should have been put to every member states population through a ballot, as ultimately its for the population to decide whether they agree or disagree with the treaty.
And its fair to say from the actions of Germany during the Eurozone crisis democracy and transparency are not high on their agenda. 
However in saying that, the only reason we left the EU is to dismantle any positives the UK population gained through EU membership.

The reason we left is because some people thought it would stop brown people being in the country.

[BigDoddyKane]

2 hours ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I am loathe to agree with the right, but I do understand euroskepticism.

Cases such as the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties should have been put to every member states population through a ballot, as ultimately its for the population to decide whether they agree or disagree with the treaty.

And its fair to say from the actions of Germany during the Eurozone crisis democracy and transparency are not high on their agenda. 

However in saying that, the only reason we left the EU is to dismantle any positives the UK population gained through EU membership.

Agree with this. It should be the norm to be skeptical of the EU same as with any government, they are as corrupt as any national government is in uk/europe. They arent somehow magically different in that respect. 

The problem is we get some people blame EU for everything wrongly the brexiteers and we get some people who refuse to see anything wrong with EU which isnt much better and in the middle are most people who just want fairness and things well run and have no agendas

[welshbairn]

20 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

Why is the EU undemocratic? The EU commission for starters!  All commissioners unelected and unaccountable. 

The commissioners are nominated by their directly elected member Governments, approved or rejected by the directly elected European Parliament, and the Commission can be forced to resign at any time after a vote of no confidence in the Commission by the MEPs.

Edited July 12, 2022 by welshbairn

[Self-raising Lazarus]

3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

4 hours ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I am loathe to agree with the right, but I do understand euroskepticism.
Cases such as the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties should have been put to every member states population through a ballot, as ultimately its for the population to decide whether they agree or disagree with the treaty.
And its fair to say from the actions of Germany during the Eurozone crisis democracy and transparency are not high on their agenda. 
However in saying that, the only reason we left the EU is to dismantle any positives the UK population gained through EU membership.

The reason we left is because some people thought it would stop brown people being in the country.

We left due to the anti tax avoidance directive which coincidentally came into force 1st January 2020. The money laundering capital of the world can't be regulated like that.....

Immigration is way overplayed as the driver for brexit. Its certainly a driving factor for those who voted to leave, but certainly not those who investiee and started the campaign.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

6 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

7 hours ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I am loathe to agree with the right, but I do understand euroskepticism.
Cases such as the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties should have been put to every member states population through a ballot, as ultimately its for the population to decide whether they agree or disagree with the treaty.
And its fair to say from the actions of Germany during the Eurozone crisis democracy and transparency are not high on their agenda. 
However in saying that, the only reason we left the EU is to dismantle any positives the UK population gained through EU membership.

The reason we left is because some people thought it would stop brown people being in the country.

Brown people going to be running the UK , a brown face prime minister. It'll break their hearts.

[Duries Air Freshener]

6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

To an extent?

There is absolutely no democratic aspect to the House of Lords whatsoever.

At least with the EU there are elections.

Interesting that it's the EU democracy that you have the problem with rather than the House of Lords.

That’s not my position at all.

[Boo Khaki]

10 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Brown people going to be running the UK , a brown face prime minister. It'll break their hearts.

Can't see it if it goes to the membership. In fact, if it becomes clear during the run-off that Sunak is inevitably going to be in the final 2, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some sort of stitch up because I reckon that any single one of the other candidates besides Badenoch and Braverman would beat him if it was down to Tory members. This is why I don't think it's entirely unrealistic that a supposed 'no hoper' like Hunt or Tugendhat ends up with the job, though personally I think it's likely to be Mordaunt in that scenario.

[Granny Danger]

17 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Brown people going to be running the UK , a brown face prime minister. It'll break their hearts.

There’s different times of brown faced people to be fair.  The type that will f**k over other non-whites might just be acceptable.

[Boo Khaki]

I'm just a bit disappointed there's no Chopper Chope, Swayne, or Bone in the running. The real lunatics on the Tory backbenches don't get nearly enough exposure so having one of them in the public eye for a bit, other than spouting nonsense to an empty chamber on the Parliament channel, might just make a few ambivalent people wake the f**k up and realise what the HoC is actually about. Having said that, these utter welts still manage to get themselves elected in the first place, so maybe the general public is beyond all hope anyway. Would be amusing listening to what Chope would propose to do if they gave him the authority though.

[John Lambies Doos]

Brown people going to be running the UK , a brown face prime minister. It'll break their hearts.

Hes not muslimy brown though so some hearts may just be sprained

[GTG_03]

Haven't been keeping up to date with this shambles of a process. Hope it's Liz truss as she is thick as mince and it would be genuinely entertaining seeing her trying to run this country. 

We'd be better off out this farce altogether but it is what it is. 

[Clown Job]

12 hours ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Brown people going to be running the UK , a brown face prime minister. It'll break their hearts.

They’ll be tolerated as long as they’re hurting other minorities and making sure brown refugees are sunk in the English Channel or shipped off to Rwanda 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

12 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

Haven't been keeping up to date with this shambles of a process. Hope it's Liz truss as she is thick as mince and it would be genuinely entertaining seeing her trying to ruin this country. 

We'd be better off out this farce altogether but it is what it is. 

FTFY