Arch Stanton Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Just get English rule tae fuck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Labour now 11 points ahead, there’s a lot of catching up for the new Tory leader. Also looks like Starmer has read the room wrong on Brexit, no surprise there. https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/k63qqhpgaw/Times_VI_AdHocCabinet_Resignation_220707_w.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TapothehullDee Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Opinion polls are a complete waste of time, one even had the Yes camp ahead before the 2014 vote. Look what happened. If we voted tomorrow it would be 60-40 status quo, some people haven't got over the 2014 vote yet. To divide the people yet again would be complete madness. I doubt very much there will be another vote anytime soon, there are important things to sort out. Scotland will actually win the men's world football Cup before winning a vote on independence. -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, TapothehullDee said: Opinion polls are a complete waste of time, one even had the Yes camp ahead before the 2014 vote. Look what happened. If we voted tomorrow it would be 60-40 status quo, some people haven't got over the 2014 vote yet. To divide the people yet again would be complete madness. I doubt very much there will be another vote anytime soon, there are important things to sort out. Scotland will actually win the men's world football Cup before winning a vote on independence. Yeah! In your wet Unionist dream! Edited July 10, 2022 by Highlandmagyar Tier 3 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkirkBairn2021 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Hung parliament in the next GE has to be likely. Think that's the time for the SNP to be powerbrokers and deliver another Indyref. Can understand the reluctance to wait that long though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 hours ago, TapothehullDee said: To divide the people yet again would be complete madness. Rarely bother with this section of the forum, but this Unionist line is one of the daftest going. The division exists. Holding a referendum won't make the country divided, it is divided and has been for years. A consequence of that division is that a second referendum is inevitable and necessary. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Seem amazing that a Tory government that cannot even hold itself together, is mired in sleaze and has a criminal squatting in Downing Street still has a chance of matching the numbers of seats as the Labour Party at the next election. It is the strongest argument in favour of an MMP/PR system of representation. An easy policy to sell at the moment. Call it reform of Westminster. Introduce a set of binding ethics and codes of conduct for MPS and Ministers and include the Lords reform as part of the package. Power to the people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said: Rarely bother with this section of the forum, but this Unionist line is one of the daftest going. The division exists. Holding a referendum won't make the country divided, it is divided and has been for years. A consequence of that division is that a second referendum is inevitable and necessary. They don't seem to realise that the majority want a referendum. The evidence is that there were enough of the Scottish electorate motivated to vote in favour of a majority of representatives in our parliament to do exactly that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Zern said: They don't seem to realise that the majority want a referendum. The evidence is that there were enough of the Scottish electorate motivated to vote in favour of a majority of representatives in our parliament to do exactly that. A majority would be greater than 50% of the popular vote surely? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Left Back said: A majority would be greater than 50% of the popular vote surely? That's not how we elect representatives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Zern said: That's not how we elect representatives. The number of representatives under FPTP does not demonstrate that a majority of people want a referendum as you claimed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Left Back said: The number of representatives under FPTP does not demonstrate that a majority of people want a referendum as you claimed. If elections aren't representative of the political desires of the electorate then what are they? Are the results meaningless? What other measure would you use? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Zern said: If elections aren't representative of the political desires of the electorate then what are they? Are the results meaningless? What other measure would you use? Where did I say they weren’t representative? You argue against FPTP in one post then use the results from this “unfair” system to claim something that never happened in your next post. You’re all over the place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Left Back said: Where did I say they weren’t representative? You argue against FPTP in one post then use the results from this “unfair” system to claim something that never happened in your next post. You’re all over the place. A majority of the Scottish electorate were motivated enough to back parties that supported another referendum, enough to gain majority representation in our Parliament. How is this not indicative that majority are in favour? That's the question, if a majority were not in favour why is that not being reflected at the ballot box. I've not really commented on FPTP or called it unfair, so i have no idea where you get that from. Our system is more sensitive to swings from one party to another though, so if people were so motivated to oppose they could easily unseat the parties in favour of Indy and remove them from power, but they do not. It's not because they cannot. It's because they are in the minority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Zern said: A majority of the Scottish electorate were motivated enough to back parties that supported another referendum, enough to gain majority representation in our Parliament. How is this not indicative that majority are in favour? That's the question, if a majority were not in favour why is that not being reflected at the ballot box. I've not really commented on FPTP or called it unfair, so i have no idea where you get that from. Our system is more sensitive to swings from one party to another though, so if people were so motivated to oppose they could easily unseat the parties in favour of Indy and remove them from power, but they do not. It's not because they cannot. It's because they are in the minority. They weren’t. In 2021 47.7% voted SNP in the constituency vote. 1.3% Green The regional vote was 40.3% and 8.1% for them respectively. In the 2019 Westminster election the SNP got 45% of the votes. I can’t find figures for the greens but if you add up the figures for the other three main parties you can see they got 53.2% so the greens were as trivial as ever. You don’t need a degree in maths to work out that, contrary to your claim, a majority of people did not vote for parties that back another referendum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Left Back said: They weren’t. In 2021 47.7% voted SNP in the constituency vote. 1.3% Green The regional vote was 40.3% and 8.1% for them respectively. In the 2019 Westminster election the SNP got 45% of the votes. I can’t find figures for the greens but if you add up the figures for the other three main parties you can see they got 53.2% so the greens were as trivial as ever. You don’t need a degree in maths to work out that, contrary to your claim, a majority of people did not vote for parties that back another referendum. The Snp & Greens are not the only parties that support independence. On the regional list, Snp (40.3%) plus Green (8.1%) plus Alba (1.7%) equals 50.1%. That's a majority before you even begin to count the independence supporting parties that got less than 1%. Perhaps you should work on your arithmetic skills. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: The Snp & Greens are not the only parties that support independence. On the regional list, Snp (40.3%) plus Green (8.1%) plus Alba (1.7%) equals 50.1%. That's a majority before you even begin to count the independence supporting parties that got less than 1%. Perhaps you should work on your arithmetic skills. It's all pretty pathetic. Who wants to live in the top end of Britain partitioned on a 50%+1 of votes from a thicket of boors, neds and Shinners? it's no way to build a new country. Though I appreciate it doesn't matter to the blood and soil ScotchNats. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: It's all pretty pathetic. Who wants to live in the top end of Britain partitioned on a 50%+1 of votes from a thicket of boors, neds and Shinners? it's no way to build a new country. Though I appreciate it doesn't matter to the blood and soil ScotchNats. I note that you don't want to live here now, never mind after Indy. It's a pity that you no longer support democracy though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: I note that you don't want to live here now, never mind after Indy. It's a pity that you no longer support democracy though. I could move to Glasgow easily. The tragic governance in the Dumbiedykes Duma and the lack of people calling it out is a problem. Obviously not for you. You're quite happy with the shitshow that is NatWit Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 hours ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said: Hung parliament in the next GE has to be likely. Think that's the time for the SNP to be powerbrokers and deliver another Indyref. Can understand the reluctance to wait that long though. I can't see either the Tories or Labour giving the SNP any such concessions, just for power. The issue of partition is just too important. We can't play games with the soul of the country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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