If Scotland Votes Naw.

[Reynard]

Are you really going to run with this!, it's like 2 people arguing over the nuances of relegation, I'd rather concentrate on the top of the table.

Have you decided on which figure you are going to run with yet? Is it the 6th bottom one or the 4th bottom one?

[forza ton]

Sixth, fourth...who gives a f**k. It's still shocking.

[strichener]

^^ 100% true or in Reynards case, broken down as 50% true and 60% really true.

Leaving 5% for shockingly true.

[ayrmad]

It totally destroys one of the main thrusts of the nat clown collectives arguments. So...yep.

I've not found the 4th least fair 1 on Yes Scotland yet but I do have a list showing the UK at 6th bottom of the OECD countries, not something to write home about.

Your lack of arguments only goes to show why I'm correct in switching to a YES vote.

[pandarilla]

There's a Katie Hopkins quality to Reynard; he's clearly on the troll here.

'There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.' - Disraeli

People in Scotland have realised that their society is incredibly unequal, and its getting worse in the current economic climate. Change is needed. Independence will not solve all of the country's problems; but it will give us a chance.

I am always suspicious of people that cling to statistics to prove themselves right.

[ayrmad]

Download it then.

Yes I'm sure after a bout of high fiving between the dozen or so morons in here that constitute the nationalist clown collective that agreement will be reached that "Reynard is having a bad Sunday". I reckon I can JUST about deal with that assertion.

Meanwhile, you've had the bottom blown out your dinghy.

Download what? Your link goes through to a page with lots of documents, I suspect that's so nobody will rake through 20 or 30 documents to win an argument.

Have you came up with any figures to counteract my earlier assertion that Scots subsidized the UK to the tune of £2.8 billion last year?

[xbl]

Yep, so as we all knew, reynard was telling lies. When even the law squad can't rush in to defend him, we know its a doozy!

And this is all the no campaign has, lies. Notice how desperate he was to talk about the EU yesterday, and now he equally desperately want to Not talk about it. As soon as the no campaign are challenged, they got nothing.

[ayrmad]

There's a Katie Hopkins quality to Reynard; he's clearly on the troll here.

'There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.' - Disraeli

People in Scotland have realised that their society is incredibly unequal, and its getting worse in the current economic climate. Change is needed. Independence will not solve all of the country's problems; but it will give us a chance.

I am always suspicious of people that cling to statistics to prove themselves right.

No, stats used responsibly are a great resource, when someone debunks your stats you either move on or start looking very foolish or devious.

[pandarilla]

No, stats used responsibly are a great resource, when someone debunks your stats you either move on or start looking very foolish or devious.

I think there's been a societal shift towards providing 'evidence' for every single view/decision and I'm worried by that.

I know it sounds like a sensible thing but evidence can be generated so easily; and statistics can be twisted depending on your point of view. So people actually start to hunt out evidence to back-up their viewpoint instead of analysing evidence in a balanced way to make a viewpoint in the first place.

[strichener]

I think there's been a societal shift towards providing 'evidence' for every single view/decision and I'm worried by that.

I know it sounds like a sensible thing but evidence can be generated so easily; and statistics can be twisted depending on your point of view. So people actually start to hunt out evidence to back-up their viewpoint instead of analysing evidence in a balanced way to make a viewpoint in the first place.

And other just make up the numbers, with no evidence to back-up their viewpoint.

[ayrmad]

I think there's been a societal shift towards providing 'evidence' for every single view/decision and I'm worried by that.

I know it sounds like a sensible thing but evidence can be generated so easily; and statistics can be twisted depending on your point of view. So people actually start to hunt out evidence to back-up their viewpoint instead of analysing evidence in a balanced way to make a viewpoint in the first place.

If YES weren't constantly debunking the NO campaigns misuse of stats we'd definitely be voting NO next year, I'm starting to understand how people behind the Iron Curtain must have felt having an imbalanced media.

If there's 1 thing I'll take from this campaign it's the fact that the BBC,STV and almost every UK newspaper will all happily churn out untruths on a daily basis against the interests of the Scottish population.

Unlike politicians and the media I want to know the PROS and CONS of both YES and NO, I think I'm intelligent enough to make the correct decision if I'm given ALL the stats, we're currently being treated like idiots.

[Burma]

It totally destroys one of the main thrusts of the nat clown collectives arguments. So...yep.

Your having a total nightmare. Your link shpws nothing other than links to other stuff. And you where caught lying......again. The silence from your happy clappy unionist sheep pals shows even they are slightly embarrassed by you.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Reynard's trolling here is excellent, even if i don't agree with his viewpoint.

On another note, XBL: he has you on ignore. Grandstanding about something he's unlikely to read is totally pointless. I've no idea why you continue to do it.

[pandarilla]

If YES weren't constantly debunking the NO campaigns misuse of stats we'd definitely be voting NO next year, I'm starting to understand how people behind the Iron Curtain must have felt having an imbalanced media.

If there's 1 thing I'll take from this campaign it's the fact that the BBC,STV and almost every UK newspaper will all happily churn out untruths on a daily basis against the interests of the Scottish population.

I fully agree.

The 'you'll pay more for your messages' story was a perfect example.

Its not comparable to the Iron Curtain because its much more subtle than that; and consequently much more dangerous.

[ayrmad]

I fully agree.

The 'you'll pay more for your messages' story was a perfect example.

Its not comparable to the Iron Curtain because its much more subtle than that; and consequently much more dangerous.

Of course it is, I think the population will see through it all and return independence, the more we educate the less knowledgeable the more chance of a YES vote, NO has until now shown me very little to make me want to remain part of the UK.

[Reynard]

There's a Katie Hopkins quality to Reynard; he's clearly on the troll here.

'There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.' - Disraeli

People in Scotland have realised that their society is incredibly unequal, and its getting worse in the current economic climate. Change is needed. Independence will not solve all of the country's problems; but it will give us a chance.

I am always suspicious of people that cling to statistics to prove themselves right.

Not at all.

I have given you the source of these stats. Published in October of this year.

Can you tell me the source of the contradicting claims made by both the yes scotland website which claims the UK is fourth bottom, or the white paper (pg44) which claims we are sixth bottom? Cheers.

I'm always suspicious of people that don't enjoy facts when it blows their arguments to smithereens.

[xbl]

Reynard's trolling here is excellent, even if i don't agree with his viewpoint.

On another note, XBL: he has you on ignore. Grandstanding about something he's unlikely to read is totally pointless. I've no idea why you continue to do it.

I took a few days away from the forum, and in that time, Reynard, HB, and the rest of the law squad started to slither back in here and spout their lies. Worse still, people were taken in and started to engage seriously.

My role is to remind people of the lies and the duplicity of the law squad, to ensure their credibility remains smashed, and to ensure that their lies are not taken seriously by the less informed posters.

And of course, Reynard wanted the pension matter to be dropped so he could bring it up again in the future and claim he was right, as he did at least twice before. I stop him from being able to do that by holding him to account.

[xbl]

Observe his post above. Ayrmad has proved him wrong, but rather than engage, he is simply pretending it never happened. His kind of unionism, or as its also known, unionism, needs to be challenged at all times.

[I'm Brian]

Of course it is, I think the population will see through it all and return independence, the more we educate the less knowledgeable the more chance of a YES vote, NO has until now shown me very little to make me want to remain part of the UK.

This is where the grassroots campaign is so important. They will be the ones who will be able to debunk the myths and get the real picture across to the masses. A lot of people understandably will switch off to politicians, pick up their sun or mail in the morning and believe the garbage that is being peddled. So it requires ordinary people to get the message across. There is a power of work being put in, but the more the merrier. Yes is way ahead on grassroots activists volunteering their time, whereas no in some areas are having to advertise paid positions for people to be their activists.

[ayrmad]

Not at all.

I have given you the source of these stats. Published in October of this year.

Can you tell me the source of the contradicting claims made by both the yes scotland website which claims the UK is fourth bottom, or the white paper (pg44) which claims we are sixth bottom? Cheers.

I'm always suspicious of people that don't enjoy facts when it blows their arguments to smithereens.

I even provided you with the 5 OECD countries that are LESS fair than us, give me 1 other country to prove me wrong(I'll not be shattered or anything) and give me 10 or 12 to push us up into respectability(I'll be astounded).