Scottish Independence - How will you vote? MkII

[LunarC]

These points have all been answered adequately countless times, and TV is shit anyway so don't watch it.

Well they've not been answered to a satisfactory level from what i've seen.

[LunarC]

You've clearly absorbed a great many of the Better Together talking points but if you're open minded shouldn't you at least attempt to see what the other side is saying?

I have seen what both sides are saying which led to me making up my mind.

[ayrmad]

Wasn't trying to deflect anything.

The reasoning i can be bother to get into is posted above. I'm not going to have much of an argument to convince a yes voter i just don't agree with them, i'm waiting to be convinced by the yes voters rather than convince others to vote no as it doesn't need to be done, the yes vote is the one that needs to muster up support.

That's the best point you have made, I've no doubt YES will be planning to slowly convince people over the course of the next 10 months.

[the jambo-rocker]

Wasn't trying to deflect anything.

The reasoning i can be bother to get into is posted above. I'm not going to have much of an argument to convince a yes voter i just don't agree with them, i'm waiting to be convinced by the yes voters rather than convince others to vote no as it doesn't need to be done, the yes vote is the one that needs to muster up support.

*sighes*

Then what issues do feel you need to be convinced on? If you are truly open to the idea of Independence, you're arguably not going to get a better place to get direct answers from as you said, a predominately pro-independence forum.

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

I've said a few times that undecideds and soft no's get jumped on far too much here. It doesn't make Yes seem very appealing and it is true that Yes supporters have the ground to make up and the onus is on us to do the convincing.

As for LunarC though, just vote No. Nobody gives a f**k.

[Baxter Parp]

Well they've not been answered to a satisfactory level from what i've seen.

Isn't that because you haven't seen the answers?

[renton]

I don't think you have enough to go for it alone, i don't think that the campaign is solid enough, maybe it would work, i'm not fully convinced yet, that doesn't stop Scotland being valuable to the union.

By definition it does, if we don't have enough about us to survive independently then we must rely on incoming assets and revenue from elsewhere to survive, which would mean tha tother parts of the UK, principally England was pouring revneue into scotland to allow it to survive. By definition Scotland would be of negative value to England.

Fact is we have more than enough to survive and prosper as an independent nation.

[renton]

Well they've not been answered to a satisfactory level from what i've seen.

What are the issues that have not been answered satisfactorally and what bar have you set that defines a satisfactory answer?

[LunarC]

I've said a few times that undecideds and soft no's get jumped on far too much here. It doesn't make Yes seem very appealing and it is true that Yes supporters have the ground to make up and the onus is on us to do the convincing. As for LunarC though, just vote No. Nobody gives a f**k.

I was just putting my opinion in the thread, everything else has been a reply to someone.

[LunarC]

*sighes*

Then what issues do feel you need to be convinced on? If you are truly open to the idea of Independence, you're arguably not going to get a better place to get direct answers from as you said, a predominately pro-independence forum.

I don't feel i need to be convinced. I'm satisfied with my no vote. If that changes then that changes.

[LunarC]

By definition it does, if we don't have enough about us to survive independently then we must rely on incoming assets and revenue from elsewhere to survive, which would mean tha tother parts of the UK, principally England was pouring revneue into scotland to allow it to survive. By definition Scotland would be of negative value to England.

Fact is we have more than enough to survive and prosper as an independent nation.

I never said you don't have enough about you to survive independently, in an idealistic world you'd do well but this isn't and i can't see Scotland doing well all on it's own, that doesn't stop Scotland being a value to the UK, i don't know why you're trying to argue this point at all anyway.

[LunarC]

Isn't that because you haven't seen the answers?

I've not seen all answers no, i've made an informed decision though.

[LunarC]

What are the issues that have not been answered satisfactorally and what bar have you set that defines a satisfactory answer?

They would be enough to convince me to vote "yes"...

[renton]

I never said you don't have enough about you to survive independently, in an idealistic world you'd do well but this isn't and i can't see Scotland doing well all on it's own, that doesn't stop Scotland being a value to the UK, i don't know why you're trying to argue this point at all anyway.

So what is Scotland's value to the UK, and why is this value not transferable to a non idealistic world in order to make Scotland succesful as an independent nation?

[victor meldrew]

People are scared of change, it's a problem in all aspects of life, no-one really likes change do they. I don't mind whatever people vote as it's their choice but I really can't be bothered with ignorant people who just vote yes or no without any real reasoning.

By the way, that's not directed at anyone on here, just people in general. The amount of people I've spoken to with this attitude is unreal.

[ayrmad]

"Together we're more than the sum of our parts".

Irrefutably correct and used to great effect to keep the majority who choose not to look deeper onside.

Edited December 5, 2013 by ayrmad

[victor meldrew]

I personally think the ones that want to stay together won't actually go and look at the bigger picture and will only see the negatives of a YES vote. The ones who would like independence or are undecided are the ones who are more likely to do the research and take the time to get as much info as possible.

[LunarC]

So what is Scotland's value to the UK, and why is this value not transferable to a non idealistic world in order to make Scotland succesful as an independent nation?

More in a lovely historical sense, i like the Scottish. As i've said i'm English and feel this vote is more for Scottish people to decide if they want independence or not, i just don't like a lot of the "yes" voters reasoning.

[xbl]

Are you anti EU? That might explain why you are voting no, perhaps you would prefer to be out of the EU?

[San Starko Rover]

I was a Yes last time and nothing has changed, I have been to Estonia, Moldova, Norway, Slovenia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Georgia, Macedonia, Iceland, Cyprus, Republic of Ireland and Croatia and every one of these countries are doing just fine and not one is asking to lose its independence. Most of these nations don't have the same resources that we have Scotland and Scottish produce is known the world over but I envy everyone of these countries for having the guts to do things for themselves I really don't understand why anyone wants Westminster to make our decisions that's like giving your wages to your neighbour and him giving you back what he thinks you deserve and then making all your important decisions for you and no one would ever do that so why do they want our country to? Surely the best people to make Scotland's choices are us the Scots?

Independence will probably cost me my job (HM forces) but I will be delighted to sacrifice it for what is right I can always get another job, Scotland is a country not a region do what is right for the future and vote Yes in 2014.

Edited December 5, 2013 by San Starko Rover