Burma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We do need to get out of it. If Scotland ever becomes independent I will certainly be voting against us joining the EU , if its still around in its present form. The lone voice in the wilderness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Don't know what publication this came from, but it made me laugh. (Shared via WoS FB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 http://www.scotlandsvote.com/?tc=42713a960c46c6c742def3810556668d New poll doing the rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We do need to get out of it. If Scotland ever becomes independent I will certainly be voting against us joining the EU , if its still around in its present form. Won't we already be out? Or is this an admission that we will still be in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Don't know what publication this came from, but it made me laugh. (Shared via WoS FB) Viz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulIsclosed Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We do need to get out of it. If Scotland ever becomes independent I will certainly be voting against us joining the EU , if its still around in its present form. There is no economic argument for leaving or not joining the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We do need to get out of it. If Scotland ever becomes independent I will certainly be voting against us joining the EU , if its still around in its present form. Didn't you predict the implosion of the Euro/EU would have happened already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Didn't you predict the implosion of the Euro/EU would have happened already?Remember one thing in your political dealings with reynard.....always, always remember.....this is the guy who, without blushing, quite genuinely believes that Hitler was a Communist.Now alter your expectation levels appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 A lot of Scottish Tories seem pissed off tonight about "Better Together" branding it a Labour front who are using it to help with their by election campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Gotta love a bit of infighting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassiveFanDan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Everybody, including George Robertson, knows that NATO needs Scotland to keep hold of the GIUK Gap - that's why Iceland is a full NATO member despite not even having a standing army (they supplied a total of 2 servicemen to the Iraq occupation). Canada expelled US nukes from it's soil in 1984 and is still a NATO member. Greece did it too. Spain joined NATO in 1982, and then banned nukes from it's soil in 1986. NATO and the US weren't too fussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBamboo Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 French study questions whether Catalonia could be expelled from the European Union Politique Étrangère published a study carried out by the former chief of staff of the French Minister of European Affairs • He gives legal arguments that would block the expulsion of Catalonia and Scotland from the European Union. The debate about what might happen after independence is declared in Scotland or Catalonia rages on. The latest installment comes in the form of an article by Yves Gounin in Politique Étrangère, a prestigious French journal. He gives all manner of arguments, some of which are new and quite interesting, that question the expulsion of Catalonia and Scotland from the European Union. Gounin's article is particularly important given his political past. Until 2012 he was chief of staff of the French Minister of European Affairs, and currently he is a State Councillor. Gounin's article introduces new elements into the debate from a neutral political perspective. He understands that for the EU, the situation in Catalonia, Flanders, and Scotland is a very complicated matter, but at the same time expresses quite clearly that they cannot be treated the same way as "Moldavia, Montenegro, or Turkey". For that reason, he recommends "negotiating in good faith" based on a very logical conclusion: "Once we've crossed the Rubicon of independence, Europe has everything to lose by leaving these states in quarantine." And he adds that, if while it's true that the public statements from the Union (that is, the obligation to reapply for entry) have been clear with respect to the current legislation, "a realistic and efficient solution for an eventual independence must be found". And he considers that this solution must be the simultaneous negotiation of independence and of membership in the European Union, so that, without there being an automatic integration, there also doesn't have to be any break in the affected citizens' membership in the European Union. Arguments in favor of automatic admission Gounin presents a series of very interesting arguments in favor of Catalonia and Scotland's immediate entry once they become independent: —He says requiring negotiations for membership would mean excluding Catalonia and Scotland from the Union temporarily, which Gounin dismisses as unrealistic. And he questions the impact that the creation of borders in Catalonia would have on the whole of Europe. —He goes over the concept of 'interior enlargement' to explain that the admittance of a state that has never formed part of the EU cannot be compared with the admittance of a new state that is already a part and in which European laws are already in effect. —He alludes to the foundational concepts of the Union—liberty, democracy, equality and the rule of law—to prove that it wouldn't make any sense to deny the right of self-determination in accord with these same principles, and that doing so would be a 'democractic regression'. —He remarks upon the fact that the European Union is defined constitutionally not just as a union of states but also as a union of citizens, and affirms that stripping Catalans and Scots of their European citizenship would go against constructive legal rulings of the European Court of Justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 French study questions whether Catalonia could be expelled from the European Union Politique Étrangère published a study carried out by the former chief of staff of the French Minister of European Affairs He gives legal arguments that would block the expulsion of Catalonia and Scotland from the European Union. The debate about what might happen after independence is declared in Scotland or Catalonia rages on. The latest installment comes in the form of an article by Yves Gounin in Politique Étrangère, a prestigious French journal. He gives all manner of arguments, some of which are new and quite interesting, that question the expulsion of Catalonia and Scotland from the European Union. Gounin's article is particularly important given his political past. Until 2012 he was chief of staff of the French Minister of European Affairs, and currently he is a State Councillor. Gounin's article introduces new elements into the debate from a neutral political perspective. He understands that for the EU, the situation in Catalonia, Flanders, and Scotland is a very complicated matter, but at the same time expresses quite clearly that they cannot be treated the same way as "Moldavia, Montenegro, or Turkey". For that reason, he recommends "negotiating in good faith" based on a very logical conclusion: "Once we've crossed the Rubicon of independence, Europe has everything to lose by leaving these states in quarantine." And he adds that, if while it's true that the public statements from the Union (that is, the obligation to reapply for entry) have been clear with respect to the current legislation, "a realistic and efficient solution for an eventual independence must be found". And he considers that this solution must be the simultaneous negotiation of independence and of membership in the European Union, so that, without there being an automatic integration, there also doesn't have to be any break in the affected citizens' membership in the European Union. Arguments in favor of automatic admission Gounin presents a series of very interesting arguments in favor of Catalonia and Scotland's immediate entry once they become independent: He says requiring negotiations for membership would mean excluding Catalonia and Scotland from the Union temporarily, which Gounin dismisses as unrealistic. And he questions the impact that the creation of borders in Catalonia would have on the whole of Europe.He goes over the concept of 'interior enlargement' to explain that the admittance of a state that has never formed part of the EU cannot be compared with the admittance of a new state that is already a part and in which European laws are already in effect.He alludes to the foundational concepts of the Unionliberty, democracy, equality and the rule of lawto prove that it wouldn't make any sense to deny the right of self-determination in accord with these same principles, and that doing so would be a 'democractic regression'.He remarks upon the fact that the European Union is defined constitutionally not just as a union of states but also as a union of citizens, and affirms that stripping Catalans and Scots of their European citizenship would go against constructive legal rulings of the European Court of Justice. Just.like we having been telling the.unionists for weeks. We are already citizens of the EU and they have never chucked out a nation whos people are already citizens and who took.on EU laws 40 years ago. It seems Salmond and Sturgeon were correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Just.like we having been telling the.unionists for weeks. We are already citizens of the EU and they have never chucked out a nation whos people are already citizens and who took.on EU laws 40 years ago. It seems Salmond and Sturgeon were correct. Eh, no it doesn't. Why have you prioritised the views of this guy, over EC Presidents Barroso and Prodi? Note also, the Shefer like :- And he adds that, if while it's true that the public statements from the Union (that is, the obligation to reapply for entry) have been clear with respect to the current legislation, "a realistic and efficient solution for an eventual independence must be found". What he's actually saying is "we know what the law is, but I don't really like it so we should just chuck that out and make it up as we go along". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBamboo Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Just.like we having been telling the.unionists for weeks. We are already citizens of the EU and they have never chucked out a nation whos people are already citizens and who took.on EU laws 40 years ago. It seems Salmond and Sturgeon were correct. It would be interesting to see H_B & Ad Lib's view on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Eh, no it doesn't. Why have you prioritised the views of this guy, over EC Presidents Barroso and Prodi? Note also, the Shefer like :- And he adds that, if while it's true that the public statements from the Union (that is, the obligation to reapply for entry) have been clear with respect to the current legislation, "a realistic and efficient solution for an eventual independence must be found". What he's actually saying is "we know what the law is, but I don't really like it so we should just chuck that out and make it up as we go along". And that's what will happen. The EU are all inclusive and we have taken on their laws for years. More laws, I might add, than the Uk have ever took on. We wont be out.of the EU for a second. It's against my rights as an EU citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Eh, no it doesn't. Why have you prioritised the views of this guy, over EC Presidents Barroso and Prodi? "Yves Gounin, formerly chief of staff to the French minister for European Affairs" Because he knows what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBamboo Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 "Yves Gounin, formerly chief of staff to the French minister for European Affairs" Because he knows what he's talking about. And because it doesn't look like he has an axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 "Yves Gounin, formerly chief of staff to the French minister for European Affairs" Because he knows what he's talking about. Achh wheeesht, he never went to Scotlands foremost law school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 It would be interesting to see H_B & Ad Lib's view on this. Im sure they know better. They can tag team.this thing to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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