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Scottish Independence

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To be fair youre at the wind up, how many times in that last thread have people tried to debate ( discuss matters and say pros and cons of each side ) with you and youve just replied shouting bully etc? You dont actually debate anything, you come on and have a go at everything people have to say and tell them they're wrong and then when your provided with back ups to what they say by them and you dont reply and they ask for your opinion you just start up with the bully cries again

I think you're maybe confusing me with another poster.

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Ian Grey just asked how they would fund an oil fund.

laugh.gif

I was watching that part open mouthed, is he that stupid?

Edited by LinkinFighter

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That's another thing I don't get - surely any decisions to scrap trident, shut Dungavel, renationalise Royal Mail would be made by whichever party formed the first post-independence government.

The way Salmond and Sturgeon talk - and I believe they are included in the white paper - these things are a foregone conclusion. So are they assuming that if Scotland votes yes, that they will automatically be voted in as the first government?

No, there will be elections in 2016. You would need to ask the other parties what their plans are in an independent Scotland.

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What's the story with Scotland being part of the EU if we gain independence? I'm sure it has been said that we will not automatically be given entry and it will need to be discussed but I assume eventually we would gain entry?

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It's not the day-to-day running costs I mean, but the costs of setting up Scottish equivalents of:

The UK Borders and Customs service, and Scottish passports

The DVLA and Scottish driving licences

The Post Office

Inland Revenue

A national broadcaster (not necessarily a requirement)

Armed forces

All these things exist already, they just need a saltire stuck on 'em.

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It's not the day-to-day running costs I mean, but the costs of setting up Scottish equivalents of:

The UK Borders and Customs service, and Scottish passports

The DVLA and Scottish driving licences

The Post Office

Inland Revenue

A national broadcaster (not necessarily a requirement)

Armed forces

I do see your point, there will be set-up costs in these and many others:

HSE

British Standards

Advertising Standards Agency

Charity Commission

Civil Aviation Authority

Companies House

Competition Commission

Office of Fair Trading

Ofcom

Gambling Commission

The list goes on.

I haven't seen a single figure for any of those, but they should be able to be budgeted. Personally, I'd love to see a reasoned business plan for Scotland PLC. Hopefully the yes camp can come up with something.

Edited by Spain

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What's the story with Scotland being part of the EU if we gain independence? I'm sure it has been said that we will not automatically be given entry and it will need to be discussed but I assume eventually we would gain entry?

The story is that negotiations would start in the event of a yes vote and the expectation is that we would join the EU on day one of independence.

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All these things exist already, they just need a saltire stuck on 'em.

Not really, many of them have no offices or anything associated with them in Scotland. Certainly, divisions of the HSE have no permanent offices in Scotland. While set-up costs to do that will be a drop in the ocean so to speak, they still need accounted for.

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I haven't seen a single figure for any of those, but they should be able to be budgeted. Personally, I'd love to see a reasoned business plan for Scotland PLC. Hopefully the yes camp can come up with something.

There will be setup costs for any bodies that are based exclusively outside of Scotland, but we do already pay for all of them.

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Iain Gray: Where will the money for the oil fund come from? Chorus: Oil! Swinney’s reaction priceless

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No, there will be elections in 2016. You would need to ask the other parties what their plans are in an independent Scotland.

But that's really my point - the white paper should have set out what definitely will or won't happen in an independent Scotland - it should have been independent of the SNP's manifesto pledges.

"Trident would be gone" assumes that the first Scottish government would make that decision.

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Not really, many of them have no offices or anything associated with them in Scotland. Certainly, divisions of the HSE have no permanent offices in Scotland. While set-up costs to do that will be a drop in the ocean so to speak, they still need accounted for.

Like others have said we have 18 months after the Yes Vote to implement these things. I have no idea of the costs but won't we be entitled to a share of the UK ones?

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Not really, many of them have no offices or anything associated with them in Scotland. Certainly, divisions of the HSE have no permanent offices in Scotland. While set-up costs to do that will be a drop in the ocean so to speak, they still need accounted for.

The only one of that list i can see that doesn't have some scottish presence is the dvla. Just checked, DVLA has an office in Glasgow.

Edited by Baxter Parp

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It's not the day-to-day running costs I mean, but the costs of setting up Scottish equivalents of:

The UK Borders and Customs service, and Scottish passports

The DVLA and Scottish driving licences

The Post Office

Inland Revenue

A national broadcaster (not necessarily a requirement)

Armed forces

And the costs involved in brokering our shares of debt, oil, shared infrastructure and so on. Presumably all of that is going to require a small army of lawyers and experts on endless consultations.

In tabloidese football speak - is there a massive 'warchest' to cover those costs, or are we going to see taxes rise to cover the costs?

So it's the immediate admin costs that's putting you off?

A lot of these things don't have to be started from fresh. With reforms in Scotland's tax raising powers being implemented anyway, there is already functions of tax collection being set up - albeit it would have to be bigger in an Indy Scotland I would imagine.

We're talking about Scotland taking control of its natural resources - one of which has a 13 figure remaining wholesale value. It's like not cashing a winning scratchcard because you don't want to pay for a bus to the shops.

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But that's really my point - the white paper should have set out what definitely will or won't happen in an independent Scotland - it should have been independent of the SNP's manifesto pledges.

"Trident would be gone" assumes that the first Scottish government would make that decision.

The White Paper sets out the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland, not the Lib Dems or Labour and so on. The SNP can't speak for any other party, obviously.

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So it's the immediate admin costs that's putting you off?

A lot of these things don't have to be started from fresh. With reforms in Scotland's tax raising powers being implemented anyway, there is already functions of tax collection being set up - albeit it would have to be bigger in an Indy Scotland I would imagine.

We're talking about Scotland taking control of its natural resources - one of which has a 13 figure remaining wholesale value. It's like not cashing a winning scratchcard because you don't want to pay for a bus to the shops.

I didn't say it was putting me off - but I haven't heard any discussion from the Yes campaign outlining where the money is coming from to set-up this independent Scotland.

Someone posted above that they'd like to see the costs of setting up Scotland PLC - and I suppose that's what I want to see. How much is it going to cost to form this completely independent country? In business terms - what are the start-up costs, and where is the money coming from to meet them?

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What are the astronomical costs? Scotland generates more revenue proportionally than the UK. Take that revenue, spend it in the best interests of sustaining and growing Scotland, stop spending it on not particularly high-speed high-speed rail, WMDs and tax-cuts to the megarich.

Can anyone explain to me how we would become worse-off?

To be fair, I imagine corporation tax cuts a la Ireland would be on the agenda to entice big companies to Scotland, and the SNP are in favour of a staggeringly pointless new high-speed line between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

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The White Paper sets out the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland, not the Lib Dems or Labour and so on. The SNP can't speak for any other party, obviously.

That's where I think the waters have become muddied - as Salmond is the de facto face of the SNP, Holyrood and the Yes campaign, it can be difficult to determine which of the three he is speaking for at any one time.

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That's where I think the waters have become muddied - as Salmond is the de facto face of the SNP, Holyrood and the Yes campaign, it can be difficult to determine which of the three he is speaking for at any one time.

He doesn't speak for the campaign, which is a coalition of many disparate groups and parties.

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