Scottish Independence

[banterman86]

NO, new entrepreneurs getting lots of tax incentives to start up, women, youngsters, new technology start up businesses etc not having to worry about tax for the 1st 4 or 5 years, tax cuts for businesses that reach certain guidelines regarding their lowest paid, women on boards, union reps on boards etc.

I take it this is what you'd like to see?

Corporation tax only applies to companies making a profit of over a million. That's not much incetive to your avergae small business or start up

[ayrmad]

I think that party you describe is the SNP to be honest - universalism with middle class tax cuts.

Is abolishing APD worth £200m to a Scottish Treasury? I'm uneasy about it because i;ve never really noticed the added tax of apd when booking a flight, I;m not sure it'll be that great an incetive to passengers, and I;m not convinved it'll promote tourism as much as it will outward travel.

At the moment the SNP are probably the nearest to my views, unfortunately they're already in power and as such struggle to present the radical changes I feel might benefit us over the next 30 or 40 years.

[ayrmad]

So, which party has these plans?

Nobody at the moment as far as I'm aware, all the parties have things that attract me and put me off, I'm looking to a more ambitious and radical option appearing after a YES vote.

[ayrmad]

I take it this is what you'd like to see?

Corporation tax only applies to companies making a profit of over a million. That's not much incetive to your avergae small business or start up

Why would Corporation Tax be at the forefront of any tax breaks for start ups in the areas I targeted?

[renton]

It could be. Heck it could be the Greens ( ) the evidence at this point siggests it's more likely to be the SNP though, if we discount the possibilty of a liberal or tory resurgnece in 2016.

On evidence? Well, both parties have, in power pursued a basic strategy of neoliberalism with bolted on leftist social policies. If anything, in opposition Labour noises tend towards being more right wing than the SNP, and it was after all, the SNP who removed up front student funding from the Scottish system and removed some of the NuLabour 'innovations' that would allow for private companies to gain purchase into the NHS. Scotland has a strong bloc of social conservatives and both parties do court them to some degree or another as well.

Ultimately, it's harder to ascertain exactly who would be more right wing based on the limited levers either could pull in the status quo. Only after independence would it become more relevent in terms of fiscal, monetary, welfare and tax policy who was really the more right wing.

[banterman86]

Why would Corporation Tax be at the forefront of any tax breaks for start ups in the areas I targeted?

That';s why i asked if it was what you wnated to see, ratehr than polcies from a party just now

[banterman86]

On evidence?

Yes. We can name three headline economic polcies from the SNP which are centre right (4 if you count bus deregulation, although that's stretching it hugely)

[renton]

Yes. We can name three headline economic polcies from the SNP which are centre right (4 if you count bus deregulation, although that's stretching it hugely)

Yeah, I know - the point is you could look at past Labour administrations up here and see the same patterns.

[Baxter Parp]

Yes. We can name three headline economic polcies from the SNP which are centre right (4 if you count bus deregulation, although that's stretching it hugely)

At least Salmond hasn't promised to govern like Thatcher or keep to Tory spending plans or clamp down on immigration and welfare scroungers like the far right-wing Labour party.

[banterman86]

Yeah, I know - the point is you could look at past Labour administrations up here and see the same patterns.

With the exception of the Ct freeze you can't really - not in terms of economic policies. there are obvious reasons for this of course.

At least Salmond hasn't promised to govern like Thatcher or keep to Tory spending plans or clamp down on immigration and welfare scroungers like the far right-wing Labour party.

Salmond is on the record saying Scotland "didn't mind" Thatcher's economic polcies. As far as I know, Miliband was referencing her radicalism and leadership rather than her sunstance of her polcies

still, i see we're back at whataboutery rather than you adressing my post which replied to your points below...

That's quite a leap there - I'm not saying the SNP's polcies are wrong (although I'm uncomfortable with these 3 in particular for various reasons) what I'm saying is the SNP's headline economic polcies could be defined as centre right.

We weren't in recession in May 2007 when the SNP got elected on a freeze council tax ticket.

What's more, the White Paper states "We plan to set out a timescale for reducing corporation tax by up to three percentage points below the prevailing UK rate"

Nowt about economic conditions (you defined such a cut as right wing) or even what an optimum rate would be, simply undercutting rUK

[Baxter Parp]

still, i see we're back at whataboutery rather than you adressing my post which replied to your points below...

Whataboutery? You're saying that the SNP have right-wing policies, I'm saying the SNP is far to the left of Labour. Cutting taxes isn't automatically right-wing anyway. If there was a tax on bread, removing it wouldn't be a right-wing act or policy. Lowering corporation tax is something that we could all benefit from, in practice the prime benficiaries will be the shareholders and management, but ijn the right regulatory framework it's something that could benefit workers and consumers, which I would argue is a left-wing outcome. You shouldn't confuse policy with ideology, the SNP's philosophy, fairness, caring etc, is resolutely left-wing.

[banterman86]

Whataboutery? You're saying that the SNP have right-wing policies, I'm saying the SNP is far to the left of Labour

Yeah. that's pretty mcuh the definition of whataboutery

. Cutting taxes isn't automatically right-wing anyway. If there was a tax on bread, removing it wouldn't be a right-wing act or policy. Lowering corporation tax is something that we could all benefit from, in practice the prime benficiaries will be the shareholders and management, but ijn the right regulatory framework it's something that could benefit workers and consumers, which I would argue is a left-wing outcome. You shouldn't confuse policy with ideology, the SNP's philosophy, fairness, caring etc, is resolutely left-wing.

Undercutting rUK by 3% for business making over a million could result in a left wing outcome? have the SNP outlined this regulatory framework somewhere? tehy haven;t in the white paper.

Policy tends to lead from ideology mind,

[H_B]

Lowering corporation tax is something that we could all benefit from, in practice the prime benficiaries will be the shareholders and management, but ijn the right regulatory framework it's something that could benefit workers and consumers,

So the SNP's "Nobel Prize winning" economic adviser is wrong?

[Ad Lib]

Anyone who thinks that cutting corporation tax by 3% is a left-wing policy needs their heads examined.

It is a policy categorically associated with positions broadly ranging from market liberalism to right-wing corporate conservatism. In terms of distribution, it is in and of itself regressive. That doesn't mean it isn't a good policy or can't be part of a package directed towards ends which help all sectors of society, but its principal effects and justification is anything but left-wing.

[Baxter Parp]

Yeah. that's pretty mcuh the definition of whataboutery

No that's relativity.

Undercutting rUK by 3% for business making over a million could result in a left wing outcome? have the SNP outlined this regulatory framework somewhere? tehy haven;t in the white paper.

How does that change what I said?

[banterman86]

No that's relativity.

How does that change what I said?

Are we getting into semnatics now? goody.

I'm asking where the SNP have outlined a regulatory framework which will deliver left wing outcomes from undercutting rUk by 3% on tax breaks for the biggest businesses. Where is it? Sure isn't in the White Paper...

[bendan]

So the SNP's "Nobel Prize winning" economic adviser is wrong?

Which one?

[Baxter Parp]

Are we getting into semnatics now? goody.

I'm asking where the SNP have outlined a regulatory framework which will deliver left wing outcomes from undercutting rUk by 3% on tax breaks for the biggest businesses. Where is it? Sure isn't in the White Paper...

I know, and I'm saying how would the absence or existence of such a thing change what I said?

[Ad Lib]

Which one?

Joseph Stiglitz.

[Ad Lib]

I know, and I'm saying how would the absence or existence of such a thing change what I said?

The absence of it would change what you said, because all other things being equal, a cut in corporation tax benefits primarily and disproportionately major shareholders in multinational corporations and not the man on the Clapham Omnibus. It is therefore a regressive policy and not, therefore, by any description, left-wing. This in turn undermines your assertion that the SNP is "resolutely left-wing" when it doesn't in fact propose any regulatory changes of note to make this policy more progressive.