LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 There are direct quotes from Tom Johnston, so don't think there's much doubt this is legit. Doubt they would even bother with the meeting on Thursday if they hadn't had some positive feedback on the questionnaire they sent out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man on a bike Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Were the results of the SJFA's poll of clubs ever released? Anyway, for the sake of 60p I bought a copy when I was in the newsagents just now. Basically: * a meeting of "top flight Superleague clubs and some ambitious outfits currently outside the main leagues" has been called for Thursday * proposals include a single 12-team Super Superleague, or the earlier plan of merging the existing top-tiers into 2 divisions of 14 * there will be no North teams - Johnston says this is as "they have restructured recently", and they wouldn't want to become involved * agreement "of all clubs" would be needed, including reorganisation below the Super Superleague(s) No direct mention is made of the pyramid system, or of the criteria to join the standalone 12-team Super Superleague if established. However, it does say: the SJFA, mindful of the Highland League and Lowland League's role in the new pyramid system, are keen to explore options to maintain their grade's strong position in the non-league game Johnston also denies the proposals are a reaction to LL and its expansion, although he does state: It's more a case of looking after ourselves. And see if we can take the junior game to the next level regardless of what is happening elsewhere in the country. If it is as reported a meeting of "Top flight Superleague clubs" plus "some ambitious outfits" this is what you would call a breakaway. I am surprised that Tom Johnstone in his role as secr for the junior game (all clubs equally) can be involved in such a splinter operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 * there will be no North teams - Johnston says this is as "they have restructured recently", and they wouldn't want to become involved Restructured any more recently than the East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Changed as recently as this season from three all-in divisions last season to a superleague above east and west districts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Restructured any more recently than the East? Changed as recently as this season from three all-in divisions last season to a superleague above east and west districts. North Region changed last season, same as the East Region. In terms of the proposal's significance, for me there are 2 big questions - would the change help Junior football, or just help the big clubs in Junior football; and is the motivation to complement or integrate with the pyramid system, or provide a competitor or rival to it. It'll be interesting to see how the proposals flesh-out on both counts, if the clubs want to press ahead. As regards the latter point, the pyramid system, it remains the case that Johnston has previously spoken against the concept of the pyramid. And when he spoke the day after LL was approved, it seemed clear that a Super Superleague was envisioned as a non-pyramid rival, without licensing. (And he's been lukewarm about licensing itself too - e.g. the infamous toilet block costs). SJFA chiefs are set to press for a new national junior Superleague. Hampden bosses reckon it would be a better option for their clubs than the new Lowland League — & even rival several of the bottom tiers of the SFA’s pyramid system plans. It’s clear junior bosses reckon a super Superleague is the way to prevent big guns like Auchinleck, Linlithgow & Pollok being lured away by the chance to earn promotion into the new SPFL. SJFA secretary Tom Johnston said: ... “And it would be an option that clubs could look at rather than the Lowland League, without the financial implications that would have for any of our teams thinking about it. “We feel a national Superleague would raise the profile for our game. “I think it’d be right up there as a stronger division than the Highland League, the Lowland League & maybe even the bottom couple of divisions of the new senior set-up.” Johnston feels staying junior to compete in that sort of league would be the better option for the SJFA big guns. He added: “I think the Lowland League will be an inferior product — I don’t think it reaches the standards of our top clubs & I don’t see anything in it for them. “I don’t think there is any merit in our top teams going to play there because of the lack of fanbase & quality it will have, not to mention the costs involved in meeting club licensing requirements which are substantial. But attitudes can change. Junior football can stay in the 1960s and become a complete backwater in the modern game or it can try to move forward. The status quo is not an option. I may be a minority voice at the moment but if this doesn't happen I hope my club will give serious consideration to the pyramid - hopefully along with a licensed Bo'ness. Were the Rose not against the East restructure, wanting to stick with 12 and sectional cups? Might be against this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Meanwhile earlier in the thread: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/207856-eastwest-combined-super-league/?p=8098930 PYRAMIDThe Secretary advised that Linlithgow Rose had obtained Club Licensing Entry Level status.A discussion took place on the merits etc. of the SJFA participation in the Pyramid System. The Secretary to discuss further with then Scottish FA Chief Executive. http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/207856-eastwest-combined-super-league/page-5#entry8205300 in one of the attached pdf files: Reconstuction Proposals.pdf Pyramidlf a decision is taken that iunior Football should participate in a Pyramid System then this suggestedstructure would position us alongside the Lowland Leagues and not as a feeder to the LowlandLeague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Why would this be pish because you don't want your club in it ? No, because its a shite idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 It's more a case of looking after ourselves. And see if we can take the junior game to the next level regardless of what is happening elsewhere in the country. Bingo! more insularism promoted by Johnstone and his cronies whilst the game continues to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuzz Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Whatever happens, I hope clubs take decisions based on facts and evidence. The facts are that fewer and fewer people are coming through the gates of junior football teams, the spectator average age is getting older and the place of junior football in the context of Scottish football is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Hit the nail on the head there. Time to evolve or watch the Junior game slowly die, the pyramid has to be the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I take it the motivation behind this (other than current blazers retaining power) would be to keep the Junior Scottish Cup and have it being as prestigious as it currently is? The SPFL need to let these proposals get drawn up, then have a meeting with the SJFA to look at ways they can use points from it to integrate a full pyramid if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldy Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Mr Johnstone should concentrate in getting a sponsor for the junior cup instead of punting this pish,,,,,,,, Who can afford busses every second week to the east ??? Home teams income will drop due to lack of away supporters,,, Not for me , have a best of the best cup between top two from both league's , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackD1908 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I like the idea, mainly because I live in Edinburgh so away games against Mussey, Bonnyrigg, Newtongrange, etc would be home games for me. The problem would surely be further down the pyramid, could Girvan afford a league match away to Dundee East Cragie for example? A lot of those clubs don't have the support or sponsorships like the Superleague clubs do, could they afford it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Mr Johnstone should concentrate in getting a sponsor for the junior cup instead of punting this pish,,,,,,,,Who can afford busses every second week to the east ??? Home teams income will drop due to lack of away supporters,,,Not for me , have a best of the best cup between top two from both league's , It's not far side of the moon you're talking about. Frankly the SJFA should be looking at the long term for the game. I don't think they are right enough, they're still trying to do a Lowland League on the cheap (no licence). As things stand my club has had a longstanding reputation for investing in its facilities - hence the club licence. But the income levels in the current structure are pitiful. We're now at the stage where our floodlights need a real overhaul but what's the point? Everyone is allowed to refuse to let us use them. There is almost zero incentive within the current set up to invest in facilities and it's been that way for a long time. Where it is happening, it's self driven or a realisation that community engagement is the way forward. Clubs who are prepared to try to improve on and off the pitch should be feeling the benefit but they don't. As far as the grade is concerned, they mightas well not have bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I like the idea, mainly because I live in Edinburgh so away games against Mussey, Bonnyrigg, Newtongrange, etc would be home games for me. The problem would surely be further down the pyramid, could Girvan afford a league match away to Dundee East Cragie for example? A lot of those clubs don't have the support or sponsorships like the Superleague clubs do, could they afford it? Clubs at that sort of level would still be playing in the district leagues that they are at the moment. The current plan appears to be to have only 12 teams playing in a superleague covering both the west and east regions. Contrary to what HTG is saying above, if as has been mentioned previously (search back a few pages in this thread if you don't believe me) there will be extra ground related requirements for the clubs selected to fill this new "national" superleague, I don't think it's safe to assume that licensing is not involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldy Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 It's not far side of the moon you're talking about. Frankly the SJFA should be looking at the long term for the game. I don't think they are right enough, they're still trying to do a Lowland League on the cheap (no licence). As things stand my club has had a longstanding reputation for investing in its facilities - hence the club licence. But the income levels in the current structure are pitiful. We're now at the stage where our floodlights need a real overhaul but what's the point? Everyone is allowed to refuse to let us use them. There is almost zero incentive within the current set up to invest in facilities and it's been that way for a long time. Where it is happening, it's self driven or a realisation that community engagement is the way forward. Clubs who are prepared to try to improve on and off the pitch should be feeling the benefit but they don't. As far as the grade is concerned, they mightas well not have bothered. Yes it's not the far side of the moon , but unemployment is rife in a lot of areas and many of these guy's follow junior fibaw , so to ask them to fork out 20 quid for bus n admission to a game is out with their means, so they then become lost to the game !!! Your club has been fortunate to have had a few ties in senior cup and brought in income to improve your facilities, BUT the majority of clubs have to make do with what we can Yes in an ideal world the super ,super league would be great , but in real world not for most club's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yes it's not the far side of the moon , but unemployment is rife in a lot of areas and many of these guy's follow junior fibaw , so to ask them to fork out 20 quid for bus n admission to a game is out with their means, so they then become lost to the game !!! Your club has been fortunate to have had a few ties in senior cup and brought in income to improve your facilities, BUT the majority of clubs have to make do with what we can Yes in an ideal world the super ,super league would be great , but in real world not for most club's. With this proposal only a few clubs would be required to travel a fair distance every couple of weeks. Most, if not all of these clubs would tend to be the Talbots and Linlithgows who have a bit more money than most due to their higher than average crowds. The remainder of the teams would still be in regional leagues with no great traveling requirements. I personally don't think this is the way forward either though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yes it's not the far side of the moon , but unemployment is rife in a lot of areas and many of these guy's follow junior fibaw , so to ask them to fork out 20 quid for bus n admission to a game is out with their means, so they then become lost to the game !!! Your club has been fortunate to have had a few ties in senior cup and brought in income to improve your facilities, BUT the majority of clubs have to make do with what we can Yes in an ideal world the super ,super league would be great , but in real world not for most club's.Most clubs won't be in it by definition. People are becoming lost to the game at this level all the time. It has little if any attraction left. It's not a coincidence that it can't find a sponsor. By all means if clubs can't afford to be part of something then find the level they can afford. The option is that everyone stays at that level and ambition is stifled where it might otherwise exist.And my club isn't built on appearances in the senior cup - albeit that is now really important to us. The committee have been investing in the infrastructure for 50 years and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 I personally don't think this is the way forward either though. What is then do you think? Fwiw, I don't think it's the way forward either. The Lowland League was the way forward and that boat has all but sailed for junior teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Not if this is a way to get the top junior division on a par with the LL and that's been in documents that have circulated so isn't wild speculation on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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