Syria

[jagfox]

Any proof of these Israeli chemical weapons attacks on Palestine?

They used phosphorus in the recent conflict with the Palestinians. Which is outlawed.

[jagfox]

 

 I'm fairly sure the German army would have fired ten that many bullets in half a day in Normandy.

Those murdered in concentration camps were non-combatants.

Also there was a factor that your average Wermacht soldier would not be happy killing civillians despite their faith or political point of view. The Nazis didn't publise their death camps, even at home.

[dorlomin]

Not just the bullets. The man power and resources were required elsewhere. They were fighting a war dont you know

They were carrying out a genocide. Everything else came second.

[NorthAyrshireKillie]

The Nazis actually switched to gas due to the mental stress their soldiers were under constantly executing unarmed civilians all day everyday, there were entire units dedicated to it, I think it was Himmler who came up with the idea for the chambers I remember seeing a doc about it.

[dorlomin]

Those murdered in concentration camps were non-combatants.

.

Not all. Many East European POWs and resistance fighters from occupied countries were killed in concentration camps.

Many more POWs were starved to death in their POW camps. The numbers ran to about 3.3 million were killed\murdered or starved in POW camps.

[jagfox]

They were carrying out a genocide. Everything else came second. 

I would disagree. Their war effort was the priority although it was impinged by their bat shit crazy ideals and genocidal intent.

[jagfox]

Not all. Many East European POWs and resistance fighters from occupied countries were killed in concentration camps.  

 

Many more POWs were starved to death in their POW camps. The numbers ran to about 3.3 million were killed\murdered or starved in POW camps. 

Is that in addition to the concentration camp casualties? I appreciate they had little time for some POWs especially the Russians and other slavs who were considered sub-human.

[renton]

Those murdered in concentration camps were non-combatants.

Also there was a factor that your average Wermacht soldier would not be happy killing civillians despite their faith or political point of view. The Nazis didn't publise their death camps, even at home.

So, what's your point? It was still the mass slaughter of their own civilian population, as well as those of occupied territories by the use of poison gas. It doesn't matte rthat they were all rounde dup first or if they'd has a sarin warhead dropped on their town. The outcome, and the agent of that outcome, were the same.

Here's the point: NBC weapons are terrifying becuase of their scale. Another poster picked up on the point that the firebombing of tokyo did more damage than the Hiroshima atom bomb. This is true, however, that was the entire industrial output of the US, in a total war situation, building thousands of bombers and training thousands of aircrew. It was not a long term sustainable process. Hiroshima was one aircraft and one bomb. The western allies, with their combined industrial output, at the absolute peak of their powers and after 5 years of war, were cpaapble of flattening a city with sheer volume of high explosive. A nation with one bomber and one A-bomb could achieve the same result. The top of the convnetional warfare scale was at the very bottom of the nuclear scale.

Similarly, with Chemical weapons. Their widespread deployment could inflict an order of magnitude damage above and beyond what could be acheived with existing conventional arsenals.

[dorlomin]

Similarly, with Chemical weapons. Their widespread deployment could inflict an order of magnitude damage above and beyond what could be acheived with existing conventional arsenals.

Depending on the agent but it can continue to kill days and weeks later. VX has a famous 'high persistence' in the environment. Some have been developed to deny an area for an extended time period.

If we react now we make the situation work. If we dont react now, what then? More chemical attacks. Others take measure of where the line in the sand is for what they can get away with.

There are no morally good choices. Whatever we do, it will turn to horrible sh*t in our hands.

If you advocate non intervention, give a total of gassed civilians that will make you change your mind.

[jagfox]

The nazis didnt use nbcs in a military context that was the point. People were taken away and killed at the pace set by the death camps.

We don't even know for sure which side released the weapon in Syria?

So I can't see why we can get involved for the rumoured use of chemicals by one side of the shitfest in Syria.

[jagfox]

Far more Japanese cities and civillans were killed by conventional bombs along with a liberal use of incendiaries.

The atom bombs were used to bring the war to a close. Nagasaki wasn't even the primary target I heard and had little military importance but like Hiroshima was hitherto relatively unscathed by the mass bombings.

Syria doesn't have weapons anywhere near the capability of those weapons used 60 odd years ago.

[Skintight]

We don't even know for sure which side released the weapon in Syria? /quote]

Both UK & US Governments seem convinced

[renton]

Far more Japanese cities and civillans were killed by conventional bombs along with a liberal use of incendiaries.

The atom bombs were used to bring the war to a close. Nagasaki wasn't even the primary target I heard and had little military importance but like Hiroshima was hitherto relatively unscathed by the mass bombings.

Syria doesn't have weapons anywhere near the capability of those weapons used 60 odd years ago.

Read my previous post. That was the entire industrial output of the US at it's peak. Unsustainable over the long term. Hiroshima was a single bomb. It's a question of scales. The entire US cold war bomber force, armed with high explosives could theoretically flatten maybe 3-4 cities over aperiod of months (not counting losses to the bombers) The entire US cold war bomber force, armed with 1-3 MT fusion bombs could make Europe uninhabitable for the best part of 500 years in under 10 minutes.

The use of even smallish quantiites of chemical weapons could cause far more lasting damage than Syria's conventional arsenal. It's a quesiton of scale of damages.

[Tryfield]

An interesting blog from an ex- Muslim Brotherhood member.

http://shoebat.com/2013/08/27/evidence-syrian-rebels-used-chemical-weapons-not-assad/

Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood rebels would never get away with launching chemical weapons and taking credit for it. They’d have to do so while blaming Assad. It’s straight out of the Nazi playbook and a violation of two major commandments – Thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not bear false witness. However, the Muslim Brotherhood, as usual, provides more evil spin. It bears false witness while committing murder in order to push an agenda.

Lying, bearing false witness, blood libel, and murder.

Yeah, that smells like the Brotherhood.

[captain kirk]

Cambo saying pending strikes will be due to the use/possession of chemical weapons not the crisis in Syria!!!Can we expect an airstrike on our weapons laboratory?The hypocrisy is laughable, we have history of gassing Arab populations, have we not?Also what has killed more people since WW1, Cruise missiles and their payloads or poison gas or chemocals?

Never understood the ripped tights over chemical weapons ,blowing up 100 people is cool but gassing 100 isnt?

And the US with their red line moral high ground...double tap drone strikes anyone?

[captain kirk]

Any proof of these Israeli chemical weapons attacks on Palestine?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22310544

[captain kirk]

And the US used them in Iraq

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/nov/15/usa.iraq

[dorlomin]

Is that in addition to the concentration camp casualties? I appreciate they had little time for some POWs especially the Russians and other slavs who were considered sub-human.

3.3 million is the estimate for dead in the POW camps. This is from the gap between prisoners taken and those finally found alive. They did start the gassing with East European POWs, but largely just starved\worked them.

The total civilian deaths from war crimes and the Holocaust is probably about 11 millions. 6 million in the camps the rest as mass murders outside them. Mass executions were a big part of the war in the East.

[madwullie]

People actually greetin about politicians and the most powerful countries being hypocritical

The biggest and the strongest countries make and break the rules as they please. This isn't news

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

Both UK & US Governments seem convinced

Those two have got a cracking record of getting these things right as well.