The Star Wars thread (includes spoilers for IX)

[LongTimeLurker]

47 minutes ago, nsr said:

...The problem was he subverted all of the fans' expectations with something far worse than they were expecting...

Did he? Thought it was an enjoyable enough two or three hours (Mary Poppins part notwithstanding), if you didn't go in with very strong preconceived ideas about what was supposed to happen to certain characters. The middle installment of a trilogy is usually the dark and downbeat one, so it would have been a bit odd if it hadn't been about the Resistance taking a bit of a kicking, but living to fight another day and given Rey was made too perfect in the first installment, something like the Poe, Fin and Rose strand to the story was needed to achieve that overall outcome entertainingly enough even if the Canto Bight part dragged on a bit too long. In general, it's a bit bizarre when people think they know better than the director what's supposed to happen next and perhaps a sign that the more obsessed members of the fanbase has headed up its own collective backside.

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

Wouldnt surprise me if rey was kylo rens twin, in the now non canon expanded universe han and leia had twins and the female had to kill the male as he had turned to the dark side 

Why would Han, Leia, Luke and others lie to her? Why wouldn't they just tell her? Why would Han and Leia abandon her?

It makes absolutely no sense. They were happy to raise Ben and send him off to Jedi school. Why would they not have raised Rey if she was their daughter?

[54_and_counting]

30 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Why would Han, Leia, Luke and others lie to her? Why wouldn't they just tell her? Why would Han and Leia abandon her?

It makes absolutely no sense. They were happy to raise Ben and send him off to Jedi school. Why would they not have raised Rey if she was their daughter?

f**k knows, this is star wars remember, it can be any shit they want lol

[Mark Connolly]

Rey is the daughter of JarJar and Padme's illegitimate child.

[Loki]

Did he? Thought it was an enjoyable enough two or three hours (Mary Poppins part notwithstanding), if you didn't go in with very strong preconceived ideas about what was supposed to happen to certain characters. The middle installment of a trilogy is usually the dark and downbeat one, so it would have been a bit odd if it hadn't been about the Resistance taking a bit of a kicking, but living to fight another day and given Rey was made too perfect in the first installment, something like the Poe, Fin and Rose strand to the story was needed to achieve that overall outcome entertainingly enough even if the Canto Bight part dragged on a bit too long. In general, it's a bit bizarre when people think they know better than the director what's supposed to happen next and perhaps a sign that the more obsessed members of the fanbase has headed up its own collective backside.

Absolutely agree. I read the criticism online about Luke in the aftermath and thought it was over the top nonsense. Fan base happily accepting all flaws in the original trilogy and moaning about everything The Last Jedi.

Look was always impulsive, looking to the future instead of the present, and clearly channelled the dark side when Vader told him he would turn Leia. But showing that traits in him in the sequel trilogy produced vitriolic comments.

I really enjoyed The Last Jedi and think in a few years after Episode IX is done and dusted, it will probably received better.

[Ira Gaines]

Already looks like Abrams is going to try and reverse some of what Johnson did.

My main problem with The Last Jedi wasn't anything to do with anything like that. My main problem was simply that I didn't think it was great. Reminiscent of Episodes IV and VI in that regard as my thoughts on them were that they had great moments and were on the whole decent movies, but there was so much in them as well that I couldn't be fucked with.

[nsr]

16 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Did he? Thought it was an enjoyable enough two or three hours (Mary Poppins part notwithstanding), if you didn't go in with very strong preconceived ideas about what was supposed to happen to certain characters. The middle installment of a trilogy is usually the dark and downbeat one, so it would have been a bit odd if it hadn't been about the Resistance taking a bit of a kicking, but living to fight another day and given Rey was made too perfect in the first installment, something like the Poe, Fin and Rose strand to the story was needed to achieve that overall outcome entertainingly enough even if the Canto Bight part dragged on a bit too long. In general, it's a bit bizarre when people think they know better than the director what's supposed to happen next and perhaps a sign that the more obsessed members of the fanbase has headed up its own collective backside.

I don't have a problem with the director taking the franchise in a direction the fans weren't expecting, provided he actually makes a good film, tells a good story etc. TLJ was an utter failure in that respect. He might as well have had the rebels driving a clapped out transit van at low speed down the M74, desperately trying to reach the next motorway services to fill up with petrol before they can be caught by a fleet of gigantic lorries also moving at low speed, while a couple of kids nip off on a moped to the nearest casino to try and steal money to pay for said petrol.

[accies1874]

Rian Johnson mistook character flaws for characters simply acting like idiots (f**k knows if I've got that the right way round).
I also felt that TLJ was so desperate to be different and unexpected that it forgot to make its different and unexpected script interesting.

[D.A.F.C]

I was actually joking about the death star seems like it plays a large part in the new film.
I think what annoyed me the most about the new reboots was that in a whole galaxy they decided to use the same dozen characters and basically repeat the story of the first film in most of the films.
I loved the original three but even then the third film was a rehash of the first to an extent.

[captainkev]

On 4/18/2019 at 10:44, accies1874 said:

Rian Johnson mistook character flaws for characters simply acting like idiots (f**k knows if I've got that the right way round).
I also felt that TLJ was so desperate to be different and unexpected that it forgot to make its different and unexpected script interesting.

That's more of a matter of taste though surely?

For an example; Snoke's death and the manner it happened completely subverted any expectations or theories I had going into the Last Jedi, but I thought it worked really well. Kylo is already established by that point as an impulsive, unstable character whose allegiance to the First Order isn't as solid as he likes to think. His snap decision to turn on Snoke and save Rey, particularly after they'd bonded through those shared force dream sequences, just made sense to me on that basis. It also put his character into a fascinating new position as he was free to take Snoke's place as leader.

In my mind that example is not even a particularly unusual plot point within the Star Wars series either.  Apprentices turning on their masters is recurring theme across the prequels and original trilogy.  Anakin did it twice, to Obi Wan and Palpatine respectively. It's also a key part of the legend Palpatine tells Anakin to draw him to the dark side in the first place.

I get there are other objections to VIII, but I've consistently noticed people complaining particularly about the way Snoke was dealt with in that film and I've never agreed.

[DA Baracus]

Mind when folk thought that, because the hologram of him that Kylo talked to in TFA was big, that he'd be a giant?

Edited April 19, 2019 by DA Baracus

[DA Baracus]

Should Palpatine actually be back, and I have serious doubts that he will, he won't be any pal of Kylo and the First Order.

Kylo isn't a Sith and is the grandson of the lad who killed, or tried to kill, big Sheev. The First Order pretty much usurped the Empire, so Palpy won't be a big fan.

If he is back it'll be Rey he tries to turn.

[LongTimeLurker]

I've always been skeptical that the visions of Johnson and Abrams are anything like as disconnected as the irate fanboys make out. 

Both directors and Disney were trying to use the original characters sparingly as a way to draw fans in and get them enthused about the new generation characters, so they could keep making big budget films about the latter until the end of time. The problem was how that was executed in TFA more than anything else, because although the new characters were OK they were not compelling enough to sustain a big budget trilogy at original trilogy levels of excitement.

It wasn't just Johnson that subverted expectations on where the story would go. What the fanboys neglect to consider is that Luke was stuck on an island for no obvious reason and reduced to a brief cameo by Abrams on TFA because of Mark Hamill's limited acting abilities more than anything else. Johnson's solution on that was to get him to be himself as a bitter cranky old man instead of the whiny kid of the original trilogy and he also stuck Leia in a coma rather than a slave costume for similar reasons.

Both directors couldn't do the extended universe storylines the obsessive portion of the fanbase were expecting but the general audience was largely oblivious about, because Harrison Ford simply wasn't interested in anything more than a brief cameo role to be killed off and Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher were incapable of doing the acting that would have been required.

[Gaz]

On 20/04/2019 at 09:32, LongTimeLurker said:

I've always been skeptical that the visions of Johnson and Abrams are anything like as disconnected as the irate fanboys make out. 

This, this, this.

This is Disney FFS. This is the same company who have oversaw 19 out of the 21 (so far) MCU films, with different directors, all set within the same universe and working towards the same overarching storyline, and have done so pretty much flawlessly, turning the MCU into the biggest movie franchise ever.

If anyone genuinely believes that they hired Johnson and Abrams and are just giving them free role over the previous actual biggest movie franchise in history then they're foolish. This is the company that bought the rights to Star Wars and then immediately announced that 99% of the content for SW was non-canon - they want exclusive creative control over everything that happens in SW.

Someone at Disney will know what happens within the Star Wars universe, and what's going to happen (the Kevin Feige role). And they'll be ensuring that each director they hire works towards that goal.

I genuinely can't believe that there are folk who believe Johnson was given free reign to do what he wanted with TLJ. This is Star Wars, FFS.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Gaz

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

This, this, this.

This is Disney FFS. This is the same company who have oversaw 19 out of the 21 (so far) MCU films, with different directors, all set within the same universe and working towards the same overarching storyline, and have done so pretty much flawlessly, turning the MCU into the biggest movie franchise ever.

If anyone genuinely believes that they hired Johnson and Abrams and are just giving them free role over the previous actual biggest movie franchise in history then they're foolish. This is the company that bought the rights to Star Wars and then immediately announced that 99% of the content for SW was non-canon - they want exclusive creative control over everything that happens in SW.

Someone at Disney will know what happens within the Star Wars universe, and what's going to happen (the Kevin Feige role). And they'll be ensuring that each director they hire works towards that goal.

I genuinely can't believe that there are folk who believe Johnson was given free reign to do what he wanted with TLJ. This is Star Wars, FFS.

Pretty much this. There will be somehow who has to 'sign off' on the storylines and script for each film, and I would imagine that whoever this person is has an overview of this trilogy and where it will end up.

[54_and_counting]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Pretty much this. There will be somehow who has to 'sign off' on the storylines and script for each film, and I would imagine that whoever this person is has an overview of this trilogy and where it will end up.

Thats maybe why disney have let them have free role compared to marvel films, this is seemingly the end of the saga, the last trilogy, so f**k it why do they care as much as say having the marvel films all tie in for 11 years

[eddiemunster]

Rey is a Palpatine, either some sort of clone or a test tube baby.

[Guest Moomintroll]

Rey is a Palpatine, either some sort of clone or a test tube baby.

Would be Paalpatine according to Timothy Zahns' canon, although sure that has been totally disregarded at this stage.

[eddiemunster]

I reckon that's why his laugh has been included, she's his backup plan and all the goodies have fallen for it.

The only possible reveal at this stage is she's meant to be a baddie but doesn't know it and Kylo Ren has been carrying out all the nasty business so he's strong enough to off her when he has to.

It won't go to plan though and they will both end up  some new sort of beige jedi/sith combo.

[54_and_counting]

I still think rey and kylo are siblings, han and leia split them up based on leias mistrust of the force (seeing what it did to her father) and this time instead of the boy being fucked off to a shitehole it was the lassie

Although i have absolutely no fucking clue what the rise of Skywalker and palps laugh has to do with it all