The Star Wars thread (includes spoilers for IX)

[LongTimeLurker]

18 hours ago, super_carson said:

That was the Luke we all wanted to see in the sequels, not the bitter old recluse who tried to kill his nephew at the first hint of darkness despite believing his father could be redeemed after committing genocide and destroying a planet...

Mark Hamill's limited acting skills meant that any film trilogy needs to basically just have him being himself (whiny kid that needs a good slap or bitter old hasbeen) to not quickly descend into complete farce. There's a reason roles were few and far between in the intervening years that are similar to why a Sopranos spinoff featuring the future adventures of AJ was never on the cards. Compare and contrast with Harrison Ford...

[NotThePars]

Luke being anything other than a bitter jaded reclusive failure would've removed nearly any tension or need for a sequel. That wasn't the issue with the sequels it was one of the best parts of them. 

[mishtergrolsch]

3 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Luke being anything other than a bitter jaded reclusive failure would've removed nearly any tension or need for a sequel. That wasn't the issue with the sequels it was one of the best parts of them. 

If that is the best part of them then it shows how poorly planned and executed the sequel trilogy really were compared to the OT (and even the PQ in terms of story direction)

TLJ was a plot hole ridden mess. Luke being a mad old hermit wasn't necessarily a bad idea but it was really badly done imo. Now, if the other terrible aspects of the film weren't there then it wouldn't have been such a big issue. Especially if Luke didn't die in the manner he did.

Imo.

Edited May 3, 2021 by mishtergrolsch

[NotThePars]

6 minutes ago, mishtergrolsch said:

If that is the best part of them then it shows how poorly planned and executed the sequel trilogy really were compared to the OT (and even the PQ in terms of story direction)

TLJ was a plot hole ridden mess. Luke being a mad old hermit wasn't necessarily a bad idea but it was really badly done imo. Now, if the other terrible aspects of the film weren't there then it wouldn't have been such a big issue. Especially if Luke didn't die in the manner he did.

Imo.

Every Star Wars movie is plot hole ridden though. Everyone from Family Guy to Rogue One to a million guys on the internet have managed to mine those plot holes for content going on 40+ years now. It's whether the movies are any fun or have some good ideas in there that make them worthwhile. Why do you think people still talk about the prequels despite them being horrifically made near disasters that aged like milk?

TLJ is the only one of the sequels I think has anything interesting going on. It's a more competently made movie than any of the prequels and it wasn't just a straight rehash of an OT movie like TFA was or the nihilistic desperate course correction that TROS ended up being. 

I'd comfortably put TLJ and Rogue One alongside the first two of the OT as the Star Wars that are the best to watch. The prequels are their own strange beast because they're terribly made movies but your reward is that you have to think about them for the next 20 years but at least TLJ, while brimming with as many ideas as the prequels, is at least well enough made to not be a chore to sit through.

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

It's really too bad Disney didn't ignore all the irate fanboys and stick with Rey being nobody and have Rose Tico and broom boy becoming the champions of the downtrodden in some way to allow the story to move forwards and grow in a way that provided scope for future trilogies based on the new characters. TROS was bordering on unwatchable with the Emperor angle and The Mandalarion is basically just a fan service nostalgia trip.  Hopefully Rian Johnson gets his trilogy because as things stand right now Star Wars appears to have run its course and exited on a whimper.

[coprolite]

15 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's really too bad Disney didn't ignore all the irate fanboys and stick with Rey being nobody and have Rose Tico and broom boy becoming the champions of the downtrodden in some way to allow the story to move forwards and grow in a way that provided scope for future trilogies based on the new characters. TROS was bordering on unwatchable with the Emperor angle and The Mandalarion is basically just a fan service nostalgia trip.  Hopefully Rian Johnson gets his trilogy because as things stand right now Star Wars appears to have run its course and exited on a whimper.

The vast quantity of overpriced merchandise in the Disney store says different. 

[mishtergrolsch]

10 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

TLJ is the only one of the sequels I think has anything interesting going on. It's a more competently made movie than any of the prequels and it wasn't just a straight rehash of an OT movie like TFA was or the nihilistic desperate course correction that TROS ended up being. 

at least TLJ, while brimming with as many ideas as the prequels, is at least well enough made to not be a chore to sit through.

 

 

The PT were badly executed but there was a story in there, from E1 to E3.

TLJ rips holes into the rest of the trilogy and the whole saga at one point its that bad. The Holdo manoeuvre. A great looking scene but absolutely zero thought went into it. They should have been doing that for decades, no? Death Star 1 and 2 would have gone down alot easier. And Starkiller Base too.

The whole hermit Luke thing was another that I didn't enjoy. It could have worked but badly executed. 

I liked the Jedi ending idea was a good idea. But kinda didn't happen.

Snoke being killed by Kylo, yup, could be fine again but to have an all powerful Force user being wiped out by a kid using the force to turn a rusty rattling lightsabre on him less than 2 feet away all just seems too convenient. 

If you enjoyed it then thats cool. I didnt. I watched a film that left me feeling that some characters didn't do an awful lot to get places and others were poorly written and badly handled just to forcibly get to a specific end point.

TROS, well, thats equally as bad a film but for different reasons.

Again, people do enjoy those films and its fine that they do. Different strokes for different folks.

[super_carson]

I just felt the thing with Luke trying to kill Ben when he sensed darkness in him just didn't match his character in the original trilogy, given he spent the whole of Return of the Jedi trying to redeem Vader as he sensed the light in him.

He could have been a bitter recluse for other reasons that would have been more consistent with the character.

I'm quite a fan of the expanded universe stuff that Disney shelved, so maybe that taints my view of the sequels. I didn't think they were well planned at all. The one interesting dynamic was Kylo struggling with the call to the light side of the force, I thought that was an interesting twist on things that I wish had been the main arc of the story.

[54_and_counting]

Bad batch startes streaming today, only one episode at a time however which blows

As for the films, the sequel trilogy suffered from having a few different directions instead of one person at the start thinking about how they wanted the 3 films to pan out, it turned into a bit of a mess with them trying to appease the older fans (han etc) but trying to set up a new era and closing down the old one

At least with the prequels it had a story and it followed it through the three films (albeit with some very questionable plot lines and devices thrown in) the sequel trilogy was all over the place 

[54_and_counting]

Finished bad batch first episode, it must be a double episode as it's nearly 70mins long, sets up a very decent potential, addresses some questions about them and order 66, essentially what is expected from a first episode, 

 

[NotThePars]

lol that must be some laugh

[Loki]

22 hours ago, super_carson said:

I just felt the thing with Luke trying to kill Ben when he sensed darkness in him just didn't match his character in the original trilogy, given he spent the whole of Return of the Jedi trying to redeem Vader as he sensed the light in him.

He could have been a bitter recluse for other reasons that would have been more consistent with the character.


 

Apart from when he channelled his fear and anger and almost killed his father when he threatened turning Leia instead?  A fleeting moment of dark side that then dissipates exactly matches his character in the original trilogy.  

[super_carson]

8 minutes ago, Loki said:

Apart from when he channelled his fear and anger and almost killed his father when he threatened turning Leia instead?  A fleeting moment of dark side that then dissipates exactly matches his character in the original trilogy.  

I think the idea of the Luke struggling with the dark side is quite consistent, and having him properly fall to the dark side could have been a far more interesting story than what we got (Dark Empire, for example).  I just don't think it quite makes sense that in RotJ he spent all that time convinced there was still good in Vader after all the things he had done, and then a few years later he nearly kills his nephew because of a vision of something that hadn't happened yet.  I could have bought that if he wasn't aware of everything that Vader did at that point, but that would require a fair amount or retconning.  

But each to their own, I liked some elements of the sequels but they really were a garbled mess in my opinion.  

[LongTimeLurker]

16 minutes ago, Loki said:

Apart from when he channelled his fear and anger and almost killed his father when he threatened turning Leia instead?  A fleeting moment of dark side that then dissipates exactly matches his character in the original trilogy.  

...and wasn't it made abundantly clear in the original trilogy that he didn't really receive the proper training? If Anakin was too old in the prequels how was Luke going to get everything right after a crash course at an even older age. Shouldn't be a surprise that a new Jedi order he subsequently founded wouldn't work out too well.

 

[NotThePars]

I thought it was portrayed as a brief lapse of judgment that's subsequently never addressed because Kylo does a runner and is immediately targeted by Snoke. Refusing to acknowledge how TROS addresses it because that movie was a void the size of the exile's in KOTOR2

 

Anyway, what's the deal with Omega?

Spoiler

She's a force sensitive, right? Quite enjoyed the Bad Batch even if the stereotype characters are pretty bad. The shit going on around the scenes is really good. Stoked to see more of the post-Order 66 landscape. Funny as hell to have Kanan as a teenager who also sounds 40 years old.

 

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

I thought it was portrayed as a brief lapse of judgment that's subsequently never addressed because Kylo does a runner and is immediately targeted by Snoke. Refusing to acknowledge how TROS addresses it because that movie was a void the size of the exile's in KOTOR2

 

Anyway, what's the deal with Omega?

  Hide contents

She's a force sensitive, right? Quite enjoyed the Bad Batch even if the stereotype characters are pretty bad. The shit going on around the scenes is really good. Stoked to see more of the post-Order 66 landscape. Funny as hell to have Kanan as a teenager who also sounds 40 years old.

 

Spoiler

Yeah she's either force sensitive or not a genetic malfunction but actually bred as a one of a kind, her shots with the blaster indicate something special, 

As much as it was scripted about it happening, i still thought the fight in the canteen was hilarious

Will be good, like you said, to see more immediate post order 66 landscape as the empire starts moving away from clones to conscripted troopers, by the end of the war their must still have been hundreds of thousands, if not over a million clones kicking about surely, so what they did with them will be interesting 

 

[54_and_counting]

18 hours ago, super_carson said:

I think the idea of the Luke struggling with the dark side is quite consistent, and having him properly fall to the dark side could have been a far more interesting story than what we got (Dark Empire, for example).  I just don't think it quite makes sense that in RotJ he spent all that time convinced there was still good in Vader after all the things he had done, and then a few years later he nearly kills his nephew because of a vision of something that hadn't happened yet.  I could have bought that if he wasn't aware of everything that Vader did at that point, but that would require a fair amount or retconning.  

But each to their own, I liked some elements of the sequels but they really were a garbled mess in my opinion.  

He knew vader still had good in him, which was probably right as vader didnt really turn to the darkside because of a lust for power etc, he turned over fear of losing a loved one, and still vader participated in the jedi purge

So luke probably seen kylo's lust for power as worse than what he felt from vader, and for a fleeting moment went to save the rest of the jedi

[54_and_counting]

Bad batch episode 3 was quite decent, the bad batch story felt more like filler compared to the empires bit, 

[DA Baracus]

Palpatine: "Hey Anakin, go kill a bunch of innocent, defenseless children and Padme won't die or some shit."

Anakin: "Sounds legit! On it!".

[velo army]

Luke's story in TLJ should have been easy to do. A jaded and bitter old man on his uppers is redeemed by a young person reaching out to him for wisdom and training. It's a story that is an essential part of the hero's journey narrative. Johnson's desire to "subvert expectations" was contrarian rather than artistic and he didn't have the chops to pull it off. Stories still need resolution and arcs need to make sense. It was really awful storytelling and an utterly needless assassination of a beloved character.

I loved the Mandalorian. It felt a little bit Tarantino-esque in the way that it was an obvious love letter to westerns and other quest style genres. I loved the character and the journey he went on with the "child" (50 year old bairn). I have to say that the ending with Skywalker left me a bit cold. I felt the action was super slow. We'd learned previously that the dark droids are powerful and quick. They weren't quick at all in the final scene, it was like they were all played by Boris Karloff. I also felt the inclusion of Skywalker at this moment was cheap fan service. It's Mando's movie and he should have been the one who delivered the resolution of the story. It seemed that this scene was put in to make some sort of point and Mando was suddenly a side character in his own movie. It was a pretty clunky deus ex machina imo.