The Star Wars thread (includes spoilers for IX)

[dorlomin]

Science Fiction\ Fantasy films attract two basic audiences, the first is the one that like the big crash, bang wallop stories with lots of action happening. 

The second is the kind who likes the back story, the politics and the detail. 

The latest trilogy of Star Wars has been a hit with the former. But no so much with the latter. After Return of the Jedi, the Star Wars franchise (before anyone called films "franchises") lived on by knocking out extended universe books and games. Through the 80s and 90s they kept interest alive by buying TIE Fighter and the various books. 

Now all the lore built up has been jettisoned because the creators had no idea what to do with it or if it was profitable. 

People "consume" entertainment in different ways and those who like a consistent back story are largely disappointed. 

To me it seems as if the studiios shield themselves from accusations of lazy writing to moneitize pre-existing source material by picking out a couple of clowns and decrying the whole fanbase as "toxic". 

You mileage may vary. 

[mishtergrolsch]

1 hour ago, dorlomin said:

Science Fiction\ Fantasy films attract two basic audiences, the first is the one that like the big crash, bang wallop stories with lots of action happening. 

The second is the kind who likes the back story, the politics and the detail. 

The latest trilogy of Star Wars has been a hit with the former. But no so much with the latter. After Return of the Jedi, the Star Wars franchise (before anyone called films "franchises") lived on by knocking out extended universe books and games. Through the 80s and 90s they kept interest alive by buying TIE Fighter and the various books. 

Now all the lore built up has been jettisoned because the creators had no idea what to do with it or if it was profitable. 

People "consume" entertainment in different ways and those who like a consistent back story are largely disappointed. 

To me it seems as if the studiios shield themselves from accusations of lazy writing to moneitize pre-existing source material by picking out a couple of clowns and decrying the whole fanbase as "toxic". 

You mileage may vary. 

I agree with this.

The sequel trilogy has been really disappointing. There was no satisfying overarching story or theme to the whole thing. And Palps was a blatant last minute decision from Abrams. 

TFA was the 'safe movie' to reboot the whole thing. It opened it all up again and, while a close retread of Episode 4, gave scope for the middle film to kick on. Wasnt great bit did the job I suppose.

The Last Jedi, in my opinion, was terrible. Plot holes, forced characters and lore busting scenes had me shaking my head. Then killing off the new big bad guy in Snoke forced the lazy Palps decision imo. The Kylo Ren character was too much of an angry fud (a decently acted fud tbf) to be a long term Supreme Leader as hed had his ass handed to him already by Rey too.

Lastly we have The Rise of Skywalker. I had a tiny wee bit of sympathy for Abrams watching this as he had tons to do to make this a satisfying end. Which, for me, it wasnt. This probably had three times the plot holes TLJ did, had a generic Skyrim fetch quest of a plot (go there, get that, do this, go there, get that, go there, do this) that moved so fast in the first act I think developed epilepsy. And literally zero tension as almost every single cliffhanger is resolved within 5 minutes. And even more lore busting scenes in this too.

But strangely enough I actually liked it more than TLJ.

Rey was a total Mary Sue. Finn could have been the most interesting character being a reformed stormtrooper, Poe doesn't do an awful lot really and the old guard are so badly used in this trilogy I think id rather they weren't in it other than a literal torch passing scene or two.

I really hope they leave the main films alone for a while and let the Marvel guy make a plan of where it's all going along side Dave Filoni and John Favreau. They've done a great job with The Mandalorian, may not he the most complicated of plots but it's got the gritty, lived in, underworldly feel that the OT had which the sequel trilogy has lacked big time. 

[54_and_counting]

Imagine if Disney told filoni, favreau and hell even the russo brothers "here's the star wars licence, start at the old republic, dont use anyone connected with lucas characters" and do what you do best

 

[Ira Gaines]

I'd imagine that the next ones will be entirely new characters to the movies. This has been considered the end of the "Skywalker Saga" so that surely puts the whole thing to bed.

[Bully Wee Villa]

They will be entirely new characters. But the really important ones will be related to somebody we already know...

[Loki]

On 30/12/2019 at 16:55, 54_and_counting said:

Imagine if Disney told filoni, favreau and hell even the russo brothers "here's the star wars licence, start at the old republic, dont use anyone connected with lucas characters" and do what you do best

 

Again they should avoid this.  Ultimately people's expectations of how these characters should react hindered the making of the new trilogy.  The absolute fan fall out after The Last Jedi made the absolute nonsense of Episode IX.   They could run similar fall out if they use fan favourites and not in the manner they would expect to see them.

I actually went to see IX again today,  on second viewing I dislike it even more.

[54_and_counting]

6 hours ago, Loki said:

Again they should avoid this.  Ultimately people's expectations of how these characters should react hindered the making of the new trilogy.  The absolute fan fall out after The Last Jedi made the absolute nonsense of Episode IX.   They could run similar fall out if they use fan favourites and not in the manner they would expect to see them.

I actually went to see IX again today,  on second viewing I dislike it even more.

Thats what i mean, dont use any fan favs, dont use anyone connected to the 9 films at all, start way back at the beginning with the jedi and the sith

Start completely afresh, i dare say it, like they did with iron man, 

[honestly united]

The big issue with this trilogy is that you had different people writing different parts, so the whole thing ends up being disjointed. If they plan on having another trilogy, then surely they need to have one person, if not write, at least have creative control over the whole 3 movies so at least there is a coherent story over the piece.

On episode 9 it was ok. As they went with Palpatine, it would have been better to find out he was behind everything later, cut down on the time finding objects and bobbing about.

Some good moments for the fanboys (me included...) with Lando, Han, Luke and Wedge all making an appearance, some quality scenes - esp. the fight on the deathstar with Ben walking through the wave, and I thought Richard E Grant was excellent. Palpatine wanting Rey to kill him to go over to the darkside made sense as it was exactly the same with Luke in RotJ.

On the downside, the lightning taking out the ships was ridiculous (1 you could see, but not an entire fleet miles away form where he was) , and Lando and Chewy leaving to go and get back up at the same time as every one else leaves, but arrive 10 minutes after they did while going round hte whole galaxy round up troops. 

Passable, I thought it was better than TLJ, but not a patch on Rouge one, or the Mandalorian for that matter

[FairWeatherFan]

There's an established history with Knights of the Old Republic era. Would they face the same sort of backlash is they start fiddling with things that are seen as some as established canon?

[mishtergrolsch]

5 hours ago, honestly united said:

The big issue with this trilogy is that you had different people writing different parts, so the whole thing ends up being disjointed. If they plan on having another trilogy, then surely they need to have one person, if not write, at least have creative control over the whole 3 movies so at least there is a coherent story over the piece.

On episode 9 it was ok. As they went with Palpatine, it would have been better to find out he was behind everything later, cut down on the time finding objects and bobbing about.

Some good moments for the fanboys (me included...) with Lando, Han, Luke and Wedge all making an appearance, some quality scenes - esp. the fight on the deathstar with Ben walking through the wave, and I thought Richard E Grant was excellent. Palpatine wanting Rey to kill him to go over to the darkside made sense as it was exactly the same with Luke in RotJ.

On the downside, the lightning taking out the ships was ridiculous (1 you could see, but not an entire fleet miles away form where he was) , and Lando and Chewy leaving to go and get back up at the same time as every one else leaves, but arrive 10 minutes after they did while going round hte whole galaxy round up troops. 

Passable, I thought it was better than TLJ, but not a patch on Rouge one, or the Mandalorian for that matter

Just a thought, she DOES kill him so why doesn't she become a Sith? Sure, she doesn't strike him down, but she reflects his own force lightening back at his face (the third time this happens to him in the 9 films) and he explosions. Or is the Sith deal lightsabre exclusive?

[Jaggy Snake]

1 hour ago, mishtergrolsch said:

Just a thought, she DOES kill him so why doesn't she become a Sith? Sure, she doesn't strike him down, but she reflects his own force lightening back at his face (the third time this happens to him in the 9 films) and he explosions. Or is the Sith deal lightsabre exclusive?

Surely the point is the emperor wants them to be overcome with rage and strike him down in anger. In both the new film and RotJ, he tries to enrage Luke/Rey by showing them their friends being overwhelmed and set to be defeated in battle.

It's not the act of killing him itself that would cross them over to the dark side, it would be succumbing to hate and anger in order to do it. Rey by remaining calm and in control, and Luke by simply refusing to fight, were able to defeat him without swapping sides.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Jaggy Snake

[AberdeenHibee]

Fairly split on my verdict of the final instalment of the third trilogy. 

The positives? A unashamed Star Wars binge which compiled a lot of my favourite parts of previous Star Wars movies to give us an epic nostalgia trip.  Some wonderful scenes which had me smiling from ear to ear. 

The negatives?  Whilst it was a big twist, I found the decision to have Zombie Palpatine involved regretful. The original trilogy I think should have been left alone a lot more - the magic of it has been somewhat diminished knowing A) Palpatine survives, B) Hans Solo and Leia go on to have miserable lives and backstabbed by their son and C) Luke becomes some weird hermit. Palpatine was thrown down a shaft and blown into a thousand pieces when his Death Star exploded...with any remnants left to float in the cold depths of space - he could not survive that and do a (god forbid) Leia superman flight to safety (shudders). 

I hope the next trilogy makes more of an effort to take us in a new direction rather than recycling old storylines and characters.  Set it 1000 years down the line.  But still, it's Star Wars, so I will love whatever is produced. 

[grumswall]

Luke survived a fall down a shaft so why wouldn't a sith lord?

[kiddy]

Most glaring anomaly for me was with the Sith.

"Always two there are, no more, no less. A master, & an apprentice."

We were also regaled with the tale of Darth Sidious & Darth Plagueis.

Now we find they come from the Bicycle system, & there are thousands of them!

 

 

[spud131]

Why were Finn and the others going to do a ground assault on the comms relay tower at the final battle? Surely they could have used one of the many ships they had just to blow it up.

[KnightswoodBear]

35 minutes ago, spud131 said:

Why were Finn and the others going to do a ground assault on the comms relay tower at the final battle? Surely they could have used one of the many ships they had just to blow it up.

Just one of the many things that make no sense at all.

[kiddy]

Wasn't impressed by 'the' Palpatine subplot either.
Best thing to come out of this edition, was @daftlimmy's impression of Richard E Grant!

[D.A.F.C]

[Guest Jedi]

Since the Disneyfication of the franchise we have come to expect a lot of CGI action scenes which arguably move too quickly to try and keep up with the 'plot'. Same format this time around, as the scenes jump from one to the extent without much pause  to try and catch up with what is happening elsewhere. It does undoubtedly try too hard to make various nods to previous films, particularly ROTJ.

One of the main problems with the last 3 films is that you don't really get to invest in the characters or care enough about their direction as we did with the classic trilogy. That is probably the result of jumping around from scene to scent too much, and trying too hard to recapture what is after all, a 0 year old plus franchise. I suppose in some respects it is a set of films for the modern age, we can't of course return to what made Star Wars so special between 1977-1983. It maybe also says something about the lack of depth of the new characters that we have to rely on 'getting the band back together'. The only character whose story arc is fleshed out to any extent is Rey, and then all too briefly. WE just don't get enough of Poe, Finn  or Rose. They are pretty much skimmed over, and it feels like they are extras to Rey in the third film. The way Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's character is dealt with this time round comes as no real surprise, nor does Rey's treatment.

Overall, thought it was 'okay' as a kind of standalone action film..as part of the overall Star Wars narrative..hmm. Suppose it does tie up the lose ends and brings the whole story to a conclusion, but left hoping that they do leave it there.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

12 hours ago, Jedi said:

...They are pretty much skimmed over, and it feels like they are extras to Rey in the third film...

At least they didn't get the Maz Kanata and Knights of Ren treatment. Shoehorned in just for the sake of it. Thought they gave Rose an appropriate significant but not too distracting role for a fifth character in the pecking order in terms of the new generation and the controversy over that is overblown.

On the flip side, think, if anything, they overdid it with Finn and Poe and there was no need to add in the new love interests for them. Ditch that and shift more screen time to Rey and Kylo and maybe the story would have seemed less rushed and chaotic. 

The extra superfluous characters were all too obviously being shoehorned in with a view to future Disney+ or lower budget film spinoffs for Finn and Poe, and sadly having a Rose and Finn romance angle continue from the end of TLJ would have not gone down well with audiences in Asian countries any more than middle America would have lapped up Finn and Rey or Finn and Poe, so was not something they were ever likely to pursue.

Edited January 4, 2020 by LongTimeLurker