Orange Walk / Scottish Cricket thread

[Detournement]

8 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

So it's supporting the Orange Order to own the libs then? Given there's no real basis for what you're describing and we both know that people, strangely enough mainly working class Catholics, have protested these events since their inception in Scotland

Plenty of people have protested the Catholic Church (child abuse, sexism, homophobia etc) as well but no one is saying shut it down.

Obviously cracking down on anti social behaviour around marches is necessary but there are plenty of people on Twitter today who want all marches banned which goes well beyond even what Call It Out are campaigning for. 

 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Plenty of people have protested the Catholic Church (child abuse, sexism, homophobia etc) as well but no one is saying shut it down.

Obviously cracking down on anti social behaviour around marches is necessary but there are plenty of people on Twitter today who want all marches banned which goes well beyond even what Call It Out are campaigning for. 

 

Behave yourself man. Do you consider the Orange Walks legitimate criticisms of the Catholic church "(child abuse, sexism, homophobia etc)"? Or do you think there might be a bit of a difference? Do you think those marching today are likely to have radically different views re sexism or homophobia to the Catholic church?

And I guess if there are "plenty of people on Twitter" who want all marches banned that makes it a middle class pursuit then and thereby nullifies any bigotry on show?

What club do you support out of a completely unrelated interest?

[Detournement]

Just now, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Behave yourself man. Do you consider the Orange Walks legitimate criticisms of the Catholic church "(child abuse, sexism, homophobia etc)"? Or do you think there might be a bit of a difference? Do you think those marching today are likely to have radically different views re sexism or homophobia to the Catholic church?

And I guess if there are "plenty of people on Twitter" who want all marches banned that makes it a middle class pursuit then and thereby nullifies any bigotry on show?

What club do you support out of a completely unrelated interest?

I don't think their views on homophobia have any relevance to their right to march. I'm pro marches in general even though it's largely reactionary roasters who do it. 

My issue with the hysteria around the march is that you have largely middle class people denying the Orange Order members any agency to assert a 'positive' identify for themselves based around their belief system and community and insisting that it's about hating and even killing Catholics. American Independce Day or celebrations of the Easter Rising aren't about hating British people but the same courtesy isn't extended to the OO because their members are largely from schemes and small towns and villages and don't have any social capital.

The primates poster gives the game away. Comparing groups of people to animals and especially monkeys is racism 101 but someone took the time to make that poster and plenty of people seem to think it's great. 

I'm not a Rangers or Celtic fan but I make a point of not discussing club football as it would make me easy to doxx for a few weirdos on here. 

 

 

 

[Clown Job]

28 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Plenty of people have protested the Catholic Church (child abuse, sexism, homophobia etc) as well but no one is saying shut it down.

Obviously cracking down on anti social behaviour around marches is necessary but there are plenty of people on Twitter today who want all marches banned which goes well beyond even what Call It Out are campaigning for. 

 

Wild and disingenuous to describe them as a protest march

These c***s don’t see Catholics as equals, they’re second class citizens at best, they’re designed to intimidate and remind Catholics to know your place.

Id absolutely support the banning of hate marches. 

[Clown Job]

8 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I don't think their views on homophobia have any relevance to their right to march. I'm pro marches in general even though it's largely reactionary roasters who do it. 

My issue with the hysteria around the march is that you have largely middle class people denying the Orange Order members any agency to assert a 'positive' identify for themselves based around their belief system and community and insisting that it's about hating and even killing Catholics. American Independce Day or celebrations of the Easter Rising aren't about hating British people but the same courtesy isn't extended to the OO because their members are largely from schemes and small towns and villages and don't have any social capital.

The primates poster gives the game away. Comparing groups of people to animals and especially monkeys is racism 101 but someone took the time to make that poster and plenty of people seem to think it's great. 

I'm not a Rangers or Celtic fan but I make a point of not discussing club football as it would make me easy to doxx for a few weirdos on here. 

 

 

 

Americans don’t go marching through your street dressed in military style clothes multiple times a year to remind you they killed you ancestors and intimidate you if you dare step out of place.

[Clown Job]

Police Scotland statement on today’s marches

"We are aware that on a number of occasions today there have been outbreaks of racist and sectarian singing by some of those attending to support the Orange Order processions, this is utterly unacceptable and we completely condemn this behaviour.

"Where possible, we are seeking to take action against those intent on causing harm and dividing our communities, we have already made arrests in connection with various offences and will continue to do so where required. With large crowds gathering today, our main priority has been public safety and to ensure minimum disruption to the wider public.

"Once again, we see a number of people intent in causing offence and stirring up hatred by singing unacceptable sectarian and racist songs, I want to again condemn this behaviour in the strongest possible terms.

"It is clear that sectarianism remains a serious, ongoing problem in Scotland and whilst policing has an important role in tackling this type of behaviour, this is a collective problem and needs to be addressed in a collective, collaborative manner."

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

1) I don't think their views on homophobia have any relevance to their right to march. I'm pro marches in general even though it's largely reactionary roasters who do it. 

2) My issue with the hysteria around the march is that you have largely middle class people denying the Orange Order members any agency to assert a 'positive' identify for themselves based around their belief system and community and insisting that it's about hating and even killing Catholics. American Independce Day or celebrations of the Easter Rising aren't about hating British people but the same courtesy isn't extended to the OO because their members are largely from schemes and small towns and villages and don't have any social capital.

3) The primates poster gives the game away. Comparing groups of people to animals and especially monkeys is racism 101 but someone took the time to make that poster and plenty of people seem to think it's great. 

4) I'm not a Rangers or Celtic fan but I make a point of not discussing club football as it would make me easy to doxx for a few weirdos on here. 

 

 

 

Sorry to be the dickhead who numbers stuff but 

1) why is it relevant to the Catholic church then in your earlier response? 

2) again what evidence do you have to suggest that it is middle class people protesting this, what is the "hysteria", and what positive identity do you think can be salvaged from the Orange Order? 

You're quite right to say the examples you provide in contrast are not examples of hating British people. But you'll have to do some more work to link them to the OO, or to suggest that the OO are anything other than an anti catholic organization. You'll have to provide some sort of reckoning to show they are from deprived areas, and that this factors into anyone's reckoning of them. Because anyone I know who's been a member of the OO has very much not been from such a background

3) it is racism 101 to compare a race of people to primates

4) fair enough, seems a bit weird though given you've said in the past you never post on Twitter so not sure where people would dox you from 

[Salt n Vinegar]

22 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I don't think their views on homophobia have any relevance to their right to march. I'm pro marches in general even though it's largely reactionary roasters who do it. 

My issue with the hysteria around the march is that you have largely middle class people denying the Orange Order members any agency to assert a 'positive' identify for themselves based around their belief system and community and insisting that it's about hating and even killing Catholics. American Independce Day or celebrations of the Easter Rising aren't about hating British people but the same courtesy isn't extended to the OO because their members are largely from schemes and small towns and villages and don't have any social capital.

The primates poster gives the game away. Comparing groups of people to animals and especially monkeys is racism 101 but someone took the time to make that poster and plenty of people seem to think it's great. 

I'm not a Rangers or Celtic fan but I make a point of not discussing club football as it would make me easy to doxx for a few weirdos on here. 

 

 

 

I'm no fan of these marches but am wary about banning things.  FWIW I don't think that your comparisons with American and Irish Independence celebrations is helpful.  These issues are settled, unless there's a plan to retake the USA and Ireland. 

The NI situation is entirely different.  We have 2 opposing sides with entrenched views. Personally, I'm in favour of Irish Unification and I think it's inevitable. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Salt n Vinegar

[Clown Job]

3 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I'm no fan of these marches but am wary about banning things.  

So if you’re a Scottish catholic it’s just a tough shit and deal with it?

 

[Salt n Vinegar]

3 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

So if you’re a Scottish catholic it’s just a tough shit and deal with it?

 

No, not at all. There's republican marches as well, and regardless of my own views, I wouldn't want them banned either.  Slippery slope time. 

 

Off out now for a "non orange" walk!

Edited September 18, 2021 by Salt n Vinegar

[btb]

I work in Duke St. Glasgow, the (great bunch of) lads were out early 5ish with hoists stringing flegs (sic) & banners from lamposts.

[Clown Job]

Just now, Salt n Vinegar said:

No, not at all. There's republican marches as well, and regardless of my own views, I wouldn't want them banned either.  Slippery slope time. 

Let’s stop pretending this both sides issues,

It’s not. 

Catholics for a long, long time in Scotland have been the target of anti catholic abuse and discrimination. 

It’s an uncomfortable truth for some to admit or acknowledge how Scotland treats its catholic population 

You say no, not at all but have no answer to what can be done,

So what can be done other than sucking it up and dealing with it?

It boggles my mind that people will try and justify these types of hate marches still. 

You can pretty much guarantee if this was any other religion or minority being targeted people wouldn’t stand for it and rightly so

But anti catholic marches? Aye well that’s a different story

See the George Floyd protests in Scotland as an example, people will come out and protest than in their thousands….. but when the annual marching season comes around they are nowhere to be seen.

[Clown Job]

3 minutes ago, Dolf said:

In Northern Ireland the number of permits issued for parades has more than doubled in the last 20 years

However they rage that their "Kultur" is under threat because they are no longer given carte blanche to march through catholic neighborhoods 

Thankfully we don’t have catholic neighbourhoods

But there is a reason why Glasgow is the hotspot for anti catholic marches in Scotland, that attract marches from all across Scotland and NI…

Because Glasgow is where the majority of Catholics live

If they had settled elsewhere in Scotland, that would be the hub for these marches 

[Mark Connolly]

19 minutes ago, Dolf said:

If you must lead your life by the teachings of an ancient book how about choosing something from classical Greece that's at least philosophical, logical and well written

Not having this. Some of that Greek stuff is like it’s written in a different language

[dirty dingus]

Trying to equate The Orange marches to some sort of protest against paedo's in the catholic church or as the latest trendy cause for the prawn sandwich brigade to dislike is a load of pish. These are racist clown shoes who liked to get drunk and wear pseudo military uniforms to intimidate anyone who doesn't share their bigoted views. They seem to be in with the bricks in politics and policing because any sensible authority would tell them to GTF. If authorities were serious about wiping out the nonsense that accompanies these events they need to start treating anti catholic hate as a jailing offence.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

Americans don’t go marching through your street dressed in military style clothes multiple times a year to remind you they killed you ancestors and intimidate you if you dare step out of place.

They definitely do.

Also how did you figure your ancestors died at the Battle of the Boyne?

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

Let’s stop pretending this both sides issues,

It’s not. 

Catholics for a long, long time in Scotland have been the target of anti catholic abuse and discrimination. 

It’s an uncomfortable truth for some to admit or acknowledge how Scotland treats its catholic population 

You say no, not at all but have no answer to what can be done,

So what can be done other than sucking it up and dealing with it?

It boggles my mind that people will try and justify these types of hate marches still. 

You can pretty much guarantee if this was any other religion or minority being targeted people wouldn’t stand for it and rightly so

But anti catholic marches? Aye well that’s a different story

See the George Floyd protests in Scotland as an example, people will come out and protest than in their thousands….. but when the annual marching season comes around they are nowhere to be seen.

I am struggling to think of any person that I would trust to decide whether or not a particular type of march should be allowed.  I'm basically a freedom of speech sort of person, and I acknowledge that this approach leaves "undesirable" loopholes.  

Similarly, when folk start talking about banning books, or even movies, you enter the absurd world of fatwa death sentences on authors, the murder of cartoonists and us having to go out of Glasgow to watch "The Life of Brian" because the nutterocity in the Glasgow Council 'banned' it. 

There's examples all over the world of countries whose governments ban freedom of expression, and I wouldn't want to live in, or even visit, any of them.  Do I like "Orange Walks"? No, and I wouldn't mind if I never saw or heard anything about them ever again.  "I thought the 'Only an Excuse' Gorilla was brilliant.) Are there other parades that I hold the same views about? Yes. Like the" Title Celebration" wan#ers who disgraced themselves on the way to and in George Square. 

Political Party marches? Which ones do you ban?  "Church" ones?  What about Remembrance Sunday?  Anti-Trident?  Pro-independence? Anti-independence/Pro-Union?

As I recall, Gaelic Choirs have a parade through the streets in the towns or cities where the Royal National Mod is held every October.  Ban it as well?  The Edinburgh Zoo penguin parade?

In my experience quite a few folk are happy to consider banning things that they have an issue with, but they tend not to be quite so happy when folk scrutinise the activities they themselves are keen on. 

As I said, slippery slope.  I might dislike things you like - doesn't mean I should get to decide to ban them. 

Unless you drop litter.  Ban litter louts? I'd have snipers for these fu##ers.) 

[Clown Job]

22 minutes ago, Detournement said:

They definitely do.

Also how did you figure your ancestors died at the Battle of the Boyne?

Where in Scotland was that taken?

[Clown Job]

18 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I am struggling to think of any person that I would trust to decide whether or not a particular type of march should be allowed.  I'm basically a freedom of speech sort of person, and I acknowledge that this approach leaves "undesirable" loopholes.  

Similarly, when folk start talking about banning books, or even movies, you enter the absurd world of fatwa death sentences on authors, the murder of cartoonists and us having to go out of Glasgow to watch "The Life of Brian" because the nutterocity in the Glasgow Council 'banned' it. 

There's examples all over the world of countries whose governments ban freedom of expression, and I wouldn't want to live in, or even visit, any of them.  Do I like "Orange Walks"? No, and I wouldn't mind if I never saw or heard anything about them ever again.  "I thought the 'Only an Excuse' Gorilla was brilliant.) Are there other parades that I hold the same views about? Yes. Like the" Title Celebration" wan#ers who disgraced themselves on the way to and in George Square. 

Political Party marches? Which ones do you ban?  "Church" ones?  What about Remembrance Sunday?  Anti-Trident?  Pro-independence? Anti-independence/Pro-Union?

As I recall, Gaelic Choirs have a parade through the streets in the towns or cities where the Royal National Mod is held every October.  Ban it as well?  The Edinburgh Zoo penguin parade?

In my experience quite a few folk are happy to consider banning things that they have an issue with, but they tend not to be quite so happy when folk scrutinise the activities they themselves are keen on. 

As I said, slippery slope.  I might dislike things you like - doesn't mean I should get to decide to ban them. 

Unless you drop litter.  Ban litter louts? I'd have snipers for these fu##ers.) 

I have to admit,

I admire your straw clutching and mental gymnastics here to justify your support for hate marches.

I do hate to break it to you though, these bad faith, whataboutery arguments are nothing new from you.

[Mark Connolly]

Aye, f**k the Edinburgh zoo penguin parade.

Why don't the pandas get one?