Gas boilers - maintenance & repair

[Flybhoy]

9 minutes ago, maicoman said:

Thanks, will let her know.  Was scared she was getting ripped off.  The guy that installed has obviously just joined it into existing small pipe instead of running a new one right through the house.

Threaten him with a report to the gas safe register that should put the shiters up him, by the sounds of it there is a very real chance he may not hold a current gas safe card.

At the risk of sounding all Lee Wallace it rips my knitting guys who are GSR carrying out this type of work, £1200 roughly every five years it costs to do my gas course on top of circa £200 registration fee to Gas Safe once a year, I'd shop each and every single one of them, would you let an unqualified doctor perform medical procedures on you for example, hope your neighbour gets her gas pipe issue sorted. 

[Flybhoy]

21 minutes ago, supermik said:

Looks like the installer has just fitted the new boiler to the existing gas pipe which was there for the old boiler. Modern boilers need a larger supply pipe.

Although technically speaking the pipe does not require to definitely be upgraded every time so long as inlet pressure at the appliance is 20mb and drop in working pressure at the gas meter is no more than 2mb, I.e 18mb or above. 

I did a gas safety certificate recently with about 3m of 15mm going into an Ideal Logic Combi, after a 5 or 6m run of 22mm under the floor, checked with the manufacturer and they were fine with that so long as inlet, standing and working pressures were fine, which they were. 

Usually if there is a decent run of 22mm pipe from the meter you can achieve these readings okay even if there are a couple of meters of 15mm, although it's good practice to upgrade to 22mm as far as is reasonably possible, it's obvious however from the information given in this instance that is highly unlikely. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Flybhoy

[maicoman]

1 hour ago, Flybhoy said:

Although technically speaking the pipe does not require to definitely be upgraded every time so long as inlet pressure at the appliance is 20mb and drop in working pressure at the gas meter is no more than 2mb, I.e 18mb or above. 

I did a gas safety certificate recently with about 3m of 15mm going into an Ideal Logic Combi, after a 5 or 6m run of 22mm under the floor, checked with the manufacturer and they were fine with that so long as inlet, standing and working pressures were fine, which they were. 

Usually if there is a decent run of 22mm pipe from the meter you can achieve these readings okay even if there are a couple of meters of 15mm, although it's good practice to upgrade to 22mm as far as is reasonably possible, it's obvious however from the information given in this instance that is highly unlikely. 

Yeah I could see how that would work...hers however, seems to be the other way round...small pipe feed from meter joining to 1 metre length of 22mm!  

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 hour ago, Flybhoy said:

Although technically speaking the pipe does not require to definitely be upgraded every time so long as inlet pressure at the appliance is 20mb and drop in working pressure at the gas meter is no more than 2mb, I.e 18mb or above. 

I did a gas safety certificate recently with about 3m of 15mm going into an Ideal Logic Combi, after a 5 or 6m run of 22mm under the floor, checked with the manufacturer and they were fine with that so long as inlet, standing and working pressures were fine, which they were. 

Usually if there is a decent run of 22mm pipe from the meter you can achieve these readings okay even if there are a couple of meters of 15mm, although it's good practice to upgrade to 22mm as far as is reasonably possible, it's obvious however from the information given in this instance that is highly unlikely. 

To avoid confusion regarding pipe sizes on this topic. 

12mm and 18mm are inside diameters, the standard definition is outside diameters, being 15 and 18mm.

Or in old money,  half inch and three quarters. 

[Flybhoy]

6 minutes ago, Zen Archer Esq. said:

To avoid confusion regarding pipe sizes on this topic. 

12mm and 18mm are inside diameters, the standard definition is outside diameters, being 15 and 18mm.

Or in old money,  half inch and three quarters. 

Half inch is, in plumber speak 15 mm

Three quarter inch is 22mm.

Inch is 28mm.

The smaller diameters of 10mm are mini bore and 8mm is micro bore.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 minute ago, Flybhoy said:

Half inch is, in plumber speak 15 mm

Three quarter inch is 22mm.

Inch is 28mm.

The smaller diameters of 10mm are mini bore and 8mm is micro bore.

You've now taken the topic to Macro Bore.

[BairneyStinson]

Have some problems with my boiler that cant seem to get fixed. It's a worcester bosch greenstar cdi 30 combi and it's about 5/6 year old I think.

So basically the boiler has been making like a burning/hot metal smell. But it seems to only make the smell when the boiler has been like working hard when it cuts in the morning and in the evening when the thermostat gets it to cut in, it takes it's time for the smell to come about, it doesnt just happen as soon as the boiler fires up. The heating and hot water has been working fine and I have a CO alarm at the boiler and that's never went off either

Had someone out to look at it and he done the flue gas check and that all looked ok but when he came the boiler hadn't been running long so the smell hadnt built up yet and he said everything seemed fine to him.

 

Any help greatly appreciated 

[Doctor]

Ive got a Baxi Bermuda. Its probably from the 70s and only gets serviced every few years and it runs fine.

Anyone else got one of these older stylec back boilers?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

23 minutes ago, BairneyStinson said:

Have some problems with my boiler that cant seem to get fixed. It's a worcester bosch greenstar cdi 30 combi and it's about 5/6 year old I think.

So basically the boiler has been making like a burning/hot metal smell. But it seems to only make the smell when the boiler has been like working hard when it cuts in the morning and in the evening when the thermostat gets it to cut in, it takes it's time for the smell to come about, it doesnt just happen as soon as the boiler fires up. The heating and hot water has been working fine and I have a CO alarm at the boiler and that's never went off either

Had someone out to look at it and he done the flue gas check and that all looked ok but when he came the boiler hadn't been running long so the smell hadnt built up yet and he said everything seemed fine to him.

 

Any help greatly appreciated 

Check the boiler casing for signs of heat damage (discolouration).

You could also remove the boiler casing (without breaking the gas regulations) to check for the same thing.

[Flybhoy]

Those Worcester boilers have a foam insulation on the inside of the outer casing, sounds like the foam is melted or perished, quite possibly because it may be overheating or, a much more serious issue- fume spillage from the combustion chamber?

Is the outer casing scalding hot to touch once the boiler is in operation for a period of time?

It's not something you should be messing with yourself truth be told, especially if it is a fume spillage issue. 

[supermik]

9 hours ago, Doctor said:

Ive got a Baxi Bermuda. Its probably from the 70s and only gets serviced every few years and it runs fine.

Anyone else got one of these older stylec back boilers?

Used to like working on those in the good old days when boilers only had about half a dozen things that could go wrong with them. As long as the ventilation ducts are correctly sized and kept clear then they should last as long as spare parts are still available.

[Doctor]

54 minutes ago, supermik said:

Used to like working on those in the good old days when boilers only had about half a dozen things that could go wrong with them. As long as the ventilation ducts are correctly sized and kept clear then they should last as long as spare parts are still available.

I've always been vaguely suspicious of mine since you barely see any around anymore and my flats had one since i moved in 9 years ago but since I couldn't afford to upgrade it then I've been keen to hold onto it as long as possible. 

[101]

10 hours ago, Doctor said:

Ive got a Baxi Bermuda. Its probably from the 70s and only gets serviced every few years and it runs fine.

Anyone else got one of these older stylec back boilers?

My parents have the same boiler that was installed with the house in the early 70's the guy who services it says it's the second oldest he looks at.

[peasy23]

Ive got a Baxi Bermuda. Its probably from the 70s and only gets serviced every few years and it runs fine.

Anyone else got one of these older stylec back boilers?

We had to sell my late Dad's flat last year, and the Baxi Bermuda set up that was installed in 1985 was still working perfectly. Got it serviced before putting the flat on the market and the company that did it said they could still source parts ok. Efficiency of them is piss poor though even when they are working properly.

[supermik]

7 minutes ago, Doctor said:

I've always been vaguely suspicious of mine since you barely see any around anymore and my flats had one since i moved in 9 years ago but since I couldn't afford to upgrade it then I've been keen to hold onto it as long as possible. 

As long as you accept that they are nowhere near as efficient as a modern boiler then just stick with it. If it serves the purpose that you need then why splash out money on anything else. Keep it serviced and there is no reason for it to let you down.

[Flybhoy]

Only issue with Baxi Bermuda's is, with them being open flued I.e they draw their combustion oxygen directly from the room they are sited in, as opposed to modern room sealed boilers who take it from outside via the outer flue, many people don't realise the safety aspect of how crucial it is to have a permanent, unobstructed vent/air supply direct to the outside for said room to replenish it's oxygen levels and prevent carbon monoxide build up. 

This is especially true in rented properties where tenants will tape up or cover air vents on the wall to stop draughty conditions, a potentially fatal mistake to make and, albeit unwittingly a highly dangerous thing to do, anytime I have a boiler service/gas safety certificate to do at such a property I always, regardless of whether the vents are covered or not, make the householders or tenants aware verbally and in writing how dangerous it can be to cover permanent ventilation in rooms with a back boiler unit or any open flued appliances, these types of appliances are becoming rarer now but still some time before they become obsolete. 

As previously touched on, the Baxi Bermuda's have little that can go wrong with them other than the gas valve or thermostat malfunctioning  two relatively cheap and easy parts to source although, other  than that there is just the heat exchanger, if that bursts forget it, new boiler time.

In that type of system though you have a multitude of external parts outwith the boiler to potentially replace, such as pump, zone valves, programmer, hot water cylinder etc and, again mentioned earlier on they are extremely inefficient when it comes to gas consumption measured against heat output and performance 

[BairneyStinson]

On 06/02/2020 at 11:53, Zen Archer Esq. said:

Check the boiler casing for signs of heat damage (discolouration).

You could also remove the boiler casing (without breaking the gas regulations) to check for the same thing.

 

On 06/02/2020 at 12:33, Flybhoy said:

Those Worcester boilers have a foam insulation on the inside of the outer casing, sounds like the foam is melted or perished, quite possibly because it may be overheating or, a much more serious issue- fume spillage from the combustion chamber?

Is the outer casing scalding hot to touch once the boiler is in operation for a period of time?

It's not something you should be messing with yourself truth be told, especially if it is a fume spillage issue. 

I removed the boiler casing and there is black scorch marks around the inside.

I noticed a bit of that casing insulation has melted and it looks like 2 red wires (checked the manual and it says these are ignition electrode and flame sense electrode) that go into the top of the heat exchanger seem to be fouling against the inside of the casing because their plastic sheaf is protruding out too much which I guess might be causing the smell. These wires felt quite hot to touch  would that be normal?

Any ideas on the way forward?

Edited February 7, 2020 by BairneyStinson

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 hour ago, BairneyStinson said:

 

I removed the boiler casing and there is black scorch marks around the inside.

I noticed a bit of that casing insulation has melted and it looks like 2 red wires (checked the manual and it says these are ignition electrode and flame sense electrode) that go into the top of the heat exchanger seem to be fouling against the inside of the casing because their plastic sheaf is protruding out too much which I guess might be causing the smell. These wires felt quite hot to touch  would that be normal?

Any ideas on the way forward?

Call an engineer. 

[Flybhoy]

1 hour ago, BairneyStinson said:

 

I removed the boiler casing and there is black scorch marks around the inside.

I noticed a bit of that casing insulation has melted and it looks like 2 red wires (checked the manual and it says these are ignition electrode and flame sense electrode) that go into the top of the heat exchanger seem to be fouling against the inside of the casing because their plastic sheaf is protruding out too much which I guess might be causing the smell. These wires felt quite hot to touch  would that be normal?

Any ideas on the way forward?

 

6 minutes ago, Zen Archer Esq. said:

Call an engineer. 

This, by removing the outer casing you are technically breaching gas safety regulations as you are opening up access to the combustion chamber and air intake via the outer flue, can't stress strongly enough that you need to have someone with a Gas Safe Registration look at it now.

[MONKMAN]

Some sales pitch there.