Reasons to be Cheerful

[Dee Man]

4 hours ago, pandarilla said:

That middle paragraph stocks out a mile as such an abstract concept when most folk are just trying to get to their work without getting shit for being late or losing time or money.

Yes, in theory, they should be considering their place in this grand scheme of things.

Unionising a zero hour contractor? Nae bother, I'll get that done on Monday morning. Give up my life and work on a farm with fresh air in my lungs and healthy vegetables for my kids? I'll do that on Tuesday.

Folk are just trying to get on. I don't in any way condone the violence here - the protester appears to be a twat rather than anything more dangerous. But drag him off the train? Absolutely. And I think that would happen in Glasgow as well.

Bang on. 

If XR decide to go down the route of "civil disobedience" and carry out illegal acts then they can't be surprised when the people's lives they are directly negatively impacting decide to also operate outwith the law and take matters into their own hands. 

I can't actually believe I'm reading that people are being criticised for wanting to get to work. It's all very well for people living relatively comfortably who can afford the luxury of missing a few hours or a even a full day but there will have been people on that train living hand to mouth where every penny is a prisoner and any other cliche you can think of to show how skint they are, where missing a few hours pay could f**k their weekly budget. This is not melodramatic nonsense, that is the reality of living on the breadline. I've been in that situation as I'm sure many others on here have, and I'm certain there would be a queue of people waiting to pull that guy off the train if it happened in any Scottish city. 

As for the talk of the violence being disproportionate and out of order, the guy on the train instigated it by trying to volley a guy on the head when he could simply have taken a step to the side. Plus he looked like a pissed up suit who had just decided to get in on the action so f**k him. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Dee Man

[Dee Man]

36 minutes ago, Adam101 said:

When I worked a 0hr contract I didn't get penalised for being late due to transport disruption. This is bread and butter union or management relationship stuff it can be easily managed and is nothing like changing your life completely.

This is one of the massive generalisations and assumptions that have been made about the commuters on that train as if they're all working for multi-nationals or big businesses that can absorb that sort of absence. What about the employees working for small businesses where both the worker and company will have been financially hit?

[Bairnardo]

This is one of the massive generalisations and assumptions that have been made about the commuters on that train as if they're all working for multi-nationals or big businesses that can absorb that sort of absence. What about the employees working for small businesses where both the worker and company will have been financially hit?

Well tbf, that moral high ground stuff only goes so far. Every person who assaulted that guy should be charged, and most people charged with assualt will be in deep shit at work.

They out their jobs on the line as much if not more, than any protestor did.

[Empty It]

Woman on Radio 2 today telling the hippies that's shes delighted their pal got dragged off the tube and battered gave me a small smile today.

[bennett]

9 hours ago, Bert Raccoon said:

 

 

 

If they tried that in Glasgow they'd probably get the same treatment. I'd love to see them try it on an old firm day or cup final....

 

 

[bennett]

1 hour ago, Adam101 said:

When I worked a 0hr contract I didn't get penalised for being late due to transport disruption. This is bread and butter union or management relationship stuff it can be easily managed and is nothing like changing your life completely.

 

Talk about being full of yourself. ....

[Silverton End]

Instead of sitting on top of commuter trains & blocking streets & bridges, the protesters could have been picketing McDonald's (or any other fast food chain that's been polluting the planet for decades), Coca Cola, protesting outside Westminster, Embassy's, Petrochemical HQ's etc.

I think XR have kind of shot themselves in the foot by obstructing the general public.

 

[Dee Man]

22 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Well tbf, that moral high ground stuff only goes so far. Every person who assaulted that guy should be charged, and most people charged with assualt will be in deep shit at work.

They out their jobs on the line as much if not more, than any protestor did.

Again, that's a bit of a generalisation - it entirely depends on what sector you're employed in. There are plenty of jobs out there where criminal background checks aren't required. Employers paying minimum wage aren't exactly going to have their pick from the cream of the available workforce. I can't think of a single job I've had where I've been asked to supply one. Anyway, how many people actually stuck the boot in? 2 guys? Why would they be in more trouble than the protestor when they did no more than he - the instigator of the violence- did?

And where's the moral high ground bit? 

Besides, if I owned a business and an employee told me they had to batter someone on their way in to make it on time I'd be giving them instant promotion and an immediate pay rise. 

[Bairnardo]

3 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

Again, that's a bit of a generalisation - it entirely depends on what sector you're employed in. There are plenty of jobs out there where criminal background checks aren't required. Employers paying minimum wage aren't exactly going to have their pick from the cream of the available workforce. I can't think of a single job I've had where I've been asked to supply one. Anyway, how many people actually stuck the boot in? 2 guys? Why would they be in more trouble than the protestor when they did no more than he - the instigator of the violence- did?

And where's the moral high ground bit? 

Besides, if I owned a business and an employee told me they had to batter someone on their way in to make it on time I'd be giving them instant promotion and an immediate pay rise. 

Just really pointing out that lauding someone for physically attacking someone for any reason, in this case in the pursuit of an on time arrival at work, is pretty poor IMO. 

[GordonS]

8 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

 

Besides, if I owned a business and an employee told me they had to batter someone on their way in to make it on time I'd be giving them instant promotion and an immediate pay rise. 

That's not something to boast about. That makes you a thug.

[GordonS]

15 minutes ago, Silverton End said:

Instead of sitting on top of commuter trains & blocking streets & bridges, the protesters could have been picketing McDonald's (or any other fast food chain that's been polluting the planet for decades), Coca Cola, protesting outside Westminster, Embassy's, Petrochemical HQ's etc.

I think XR have kind of shot themselves in the foot by obstructing the general public.

 

FWIW, and it's disappointing that this hasn't been reported better, most of XR oppose disrupting public transport. They had a vote on it and were heavily against. But it's not a membership organisation, anyone can claim to be XR. 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Dee Man said:

Bang on. 

If XR decide to go down the route of "civil disobedience" and carry out illegal acts then they can't be surprised when the people's lives they are directly negatively impacting decide to also operate outwith the law and take matters into their own hands. 

I can't actually believe I'm reading that people are being criticised for wanting to get to work. It's all very well for people living relatively comfortably who can afford the luxury of missing a few hours or a even a full day but there will have been people on that train living hand to mouth where every penny is a prisoner and any other cliche you can think of to show how skint they are, where missing a few hours pay could f**k their weekly budget. This is not melodramatic nonsense, that is the reality of living on the breadline. I've been in that situation as I'm sure many others on here have, and I'm certain there would be a queue of people waiting to pull that guy off the train if it happened in any Scottish city. 

As for the talk of the violence being disproportionate and out of order, the guy on the train instigated it by trying to volley a guy on the head when he could simply have taken a step to the side. Plus he looked like a pissed up suit who had just decided to get in on the action so f**k him. 

You think there's never any other disruption on the tube? Have you ever been on it?

You're right, the people protesting are privileged, which is exactly their point. It's not us wealthy westerners that's going to be doing the dying when climate change seriously kicks in. It's the people who already have the least. On the current pathway we'll hit four degrees of warming in the lifetimes of people born today. Around that point the carrying capacity of the world will fall to about a billion. Even if that prediction were to be very wrong, imagine how the population falls from a peak of around 9 billion to 3, 4, 5, 6 billion. It'll make the Second World War look like a family squabble, and the victims will be the poorest. If you care about poor people, you'll care about that.

No doubt that life is shit for people on the lowest incomes in this country. The people in XR agree with you, and many of them have been active in campaigns against austerity and poverty. 

Disrupting the tube for this protest was a stupid thing to do, XR had rejected doing it before and distanced themselves from it after. This much is true. But using violence against people who not using violence or damaging property is just plain wrong. It's also illegal. This really shouldn't need said in 2019. What kind of upbringing did you have?

[johnnydun]

Well Extinction Rebellion have swayed me!

f**k public transport, I think we should all use our cars!

[Dee Man]

21 minutes ago, GordonS said:

That's not something to boast about. That makes you a thug.

That's right m8, I was being 100% entirely serious. 

Imagine having to explain that, FFS. 

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

7 minutes ago, GordonS said:

It's not us wealthy westerners that's going to be doing the dying when climate change seriously kicks in. 

Good, I was starting to get a bit worried.

[Dee Man]

19 minutes ago, GordonS said:

You think there's never any other disruption on the tube? Have you ever been on it?

You're right, the people protesting are privileged, which is exactly their point. It's not us wealthy westerners that's going to be doing the dying when climate change seriously kicks in. It's the people who already have the least. On the current pathway we'll hit four degrees of warming in the lifetimes of people born today. Around that point the carrying capacity of the world will fall to about a billion. Even if that prediction were to be very wrong, imagine how the population falls from a peak of around 9 billion to 3, 4, 5, 6 billion. It'll make the Second World War look like a family squabble, and the victims will be the poorest. If you care about poor people, you'll care about that.

No doubt that life is shit for people on the lowest incomes in this country. The people in XR agree with you, and many of them have been active in campaigns against austerity and poverty. 

Disrupting the tube for this protest was a stupid thing to do, XR had rejected doing it before and distanced themselves from it after. This much is true. But using violence against people who not using violence or damaging property is just plain wrong. It's also illegal. This really shouldn't need said in 2019. What kind of upbringing did you have?

Thanks for the borderline psychotic rant and fascinating lecture on climate change that I was completely unaware of.

A) Yes, I have used the Tube many, many times as I lived in Hayes, Middlesex for a couple of years and travelled to London regularly. I was never once disrupted but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything whatsoever.

B) This is the last time I'm saying this for the hard of reading - THE VIOLENCE WAS STARTED BY THE PROTESTER ON THE ROOF OF THE TRAIN. 

C) "Violence is illegal". Are you saying XR's illegal activities are fine but no-one elses are? Wee bit double standards there.

C) Please tell me what type of upbringing I had has to do with any of this. That is a mad, and if you don't mind me saying so, very personal question to be asking. 

D) Did you end up in hospital after getting pulled off the train?

[bennett]

Maybe  I've misjudged extinction rebellion and there not so bad after all.

 

" 

Extinction Rebellion is planning a "red hand" protest on the penultimate day of its campaign after apologising for its action on London’s Tube network that turned violent.

The climate activists will spray-paint hand prints using washable chalk spray to mark the path of today’s march from Whitehall Gardens to six government departments"

 

[DA Baracus]

Can people explain how they know all the protestors are well off and privileged?

[19QOS19]

Instead of sitting on top of commuter trains & blocking streets & bridges, the protesters could have been picketing McDonald's (or any other fast food chain that's been polluting the planet for decades), Coca Cola, protesting outside Westminster, Embassy's, Petrochemical HQ's etc.
I think XR have kind of shot themselves in the foot by obstructing the general public.
 

Nah McDonalds is acceptable apparently.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

1 hour ago, Silverton End said:

Instead of sitting on top of commuter trains & blocking streets & bridges, the protesters could have been picketing McDonald's (or any other fast food chain that's been polluting the planet for decades), Coca Cola, protesting outside Westminster, Embassy's, Petrochemical HQ's etc.

I think XR have kind of shot themselves in the foot by obstructing the general public.

 

They have been. Most of their actions this week were like that. Embassies, financial institutions that invest in environmental destruction, the treasury and other government departments.

On a slightly separate note, I don't get why people are so keen to make out like XR are massive hypocrites. It's as if some people think the only ones entitled to protest inaction on climate change are people living in caves and sowing naturally fallen leaves together for clothes. I find that weird. Do people feel personally attacked by XR or something? They are protesting environmental destruction and human and animal suffering. If that's not your bag, so be it, but why do so many people feel the need to kind of undermine them (or revel in it when they undermine themselves)? They're not coming after you. They're coming after the billionaires who profit off your suffering. I don't get the animosity.