The East Fife Thread

[fatdoug1938]

There's absolutely no way on earth there will be an outcome that everyone will be happy with so it almost doesn't matter. Purely from our perspective we'd want the league to finish as financially we don't want Raith going up and we can get to play offs.
If it's as suggested how raging would you be as a Partick fan and how raging they would be as a club? Someone's going to be very unhappy that's the only guarantee

[East Fife is best]

No chance it will pass as would have to think ourselves Falkirk Airdrie and Montrose would say no as we all have a chance of title and play offs for places in Championship

Championship play off sides and Partick would say no aswell as surely sporting integrity should be in play for Partick would promoted and relegate clubs unfairly

[sirscottyoung]

Surely we have to reject. Our first week out with the top 4 and the season is concluded after we play the team in 3rd and the team overtaking us play the worst team in the league with us due to play each other following week. Rank timing in every way

[Shadwell Dog]

4 hours ago, East Fife is best said:

No chance it will pass as would have to think ourselves Falkirk Airdrie and Montrose would say no as we all have a chance of title and play offs for places in Championship

Championship play off sides and Partick would say no aswell as surely sporting integrity should be in play for Partick would promoted and relegate clubs unfairly

Queen of the south dont look up to much either so the playoffs would be anyones game this season. Games between us , you, airdrie, raith and montrose have all been very tight in the main.

[Big Fifer]

Sincerely hope we vote to reject. Being honest, we're not going to win the league, but this isn't a fair deal. 

[Gordon EF]

Yeah, I'd hope that we vote to reject as well.

There's no need to rush into a decision now when the possibility of finishing fixtures next season exists.

[Shadwell Dog]

36 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Yeah, I'd hope that we vote to reject as well.

There's no need to rush into a decision now when the possibility of finishing fixtures next season exists.

Exactly m8. Give out the minimum prize money to every club within that league and then work out a proper proposal over the coming weeks instead of trying to blackmail clubs into voting for this.

[Gordon EF]

24 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Exactly m8. Give out the minimum prize money to every club within that league and then work out a proper proposal over the coming weeks instead of trying to blackmail clubs into voting for this.

Yep. I'm in total agreement with this. The financial hardship facing clubs shouldn't be used as an opportunity to strong arm clubs into accepting conditions that aren't needed right now.

[CALDERON]

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

Yeah, I'd hope that we vote to reject as well.

There's no need to rush into a decision now when the possibility of finishing fixtures next season exists.

Not that I disagree, but the SPFL have pretty much said that the possibility of finishing these fixtures doesn't exist. Can't see them changing their mind on that part. 

[Gordon EF]

2 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Not that I disagree, but the SPFL have pretty much said that the possibility of finishing these fixtures doesn't exist. Can't see them changing their mind on that part. 

They might have said that. It's clearly not true though.

It is obviously extremely unlikely they could be finished before 20/21 is due to start. But due to the fact that there's a serious question mark over whether 20/21 can start on time anyway, there's obviously an opportunity to finish this season's fixtures when we can restart and mould the following season around that.

[Shadwell Dog]

7 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Not that I disagree, but the SPFL have pretty much said that the possibility of finishing these fixtures doesn't exist. Can't see them changing their mind on that part. 

What happens if UEFA tell the SPFL that if they want to enter teams in europe they must finish the premier league?

[CALDERON]

2 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

What happens if UEFA tell the SPFL that if they want to enter teams in europe they must finish the premier league?

That won't change anything. They said lower league fixtures can't finish. 

[Shadwell Dog]

3 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

That won't change anything. They said lower league fixtures can't finish. 

So why can the top flight fixtures finish but not the lower league  ones?  Theres roughly the same amount of games still to go in all the leagues.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[CALDERON]

1 minute ago, Shadwell Dog said:

So why can the top flight fixtures finish but not the lower league  ones? 

I dare say, because streaming top flight games behind closed doors would generate some kind of wider interest and some kind of meaningful income (I'm assuming)

Doing that for the lower leagues, 2 of which are foregone conclusions, wont.

[Shadwell Dog]

3 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

I dare say, because streaming top flight games behind closed doors would generate some kind of wider interest and some kind of meaningful income (I'm assuming)

Doing that for the lower leagues, 2 of which are foregone conclusions, wont.

Players have already refused the idea of games behind closed doors so that ain't an option. I doubt very much it would be allowed anyway. Every league has something still up for grabs whether it be at the top end or bottom end so still a big interest there.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[renton]

5 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

They might have said that. It's clearly not true though.

It is obviously extremely unlikely they could be finished before 20/21 is due to start. But due to the fact that there's a serious question mark over whether 20/21 can start on time anyway, there's obviously an opportunity to finish this season's fixtures when we can restart and mould the following season around that.

Then we are talking about a choice between ending the season prematurely based on the merits of the current squads vs. Finishing the season sometime in the future with potentially very different looking squads, which could change the whole narrative of the remaining campaign. Currently we have a close race for both league and play offs. 4 months down the line, that might not be the case anymore (as an aside, if a club went into admin during the layoff, would they still be liable for points deduction once the league restarted?)

Not sure that's any fairer. 

The current initial proposal obviously makes winners of some and losers of others. While it's true that league reconstruction shouldn't be the hostage of a crisis situation, it is still probably the best means of ensuring some degree of fairness by trying to honour as much of the promotion race as possible and negating the relegations.

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, renton said:

Then we are talking about a choice between ending the season prematurely based on the merits of the current squads vs. Finishing the season sometime in the future with potentially very different looking squads, which could change the whole narrative of the remaining campaign. Currently we have a close race for both league and play offs. 4 months down the line, that might not be the case anymore (as an aside, if a club went into admin during the layoff, would they still be liable for points deduction once the league restarted?)

Not sure that's any fairer. 

The current initial proposal obviously makes winners of some and losers of others. While it's true that league reconstruction shouldn't be the hostage of a crisis situation, it is still probably the best means of ensuring some degree of fairness by trying to honour as much of the promotion race as possible and negating the relegations.

Your final point I agree with which is why clubs in the lower leagues should be holding out on a vote till a concrete proposal on this is in place. Say it's not whether the leagues should end that is in question here it's what happens after that. Currently all we have in the proposal is a willingness to discuss reconstruction which is pie in the sky if you ask me.  Give out minimum prize money then get round the table to produce a concrete proposal on what happens if the leagues end now and vote on it.

[Gordon EF]

30 minutes ago, renton said:

Then we are talking about a choice between ending the season prematurely based on the merits of the current squads vs. Finishing the season sometime in the future with potentially very different looking squads, which could change the whole narrative of the remaining campaign. Currently we have a close race for both league and play offs. 4 months down the line, that might not be the case anymore (as an aside, if a club went into admin during the layoff, would they still be liable for points deduction once the league restarted?)

Not sure that's any fairer. 

The current initial proposal obviously makes winners of some and losers of others. While it's true that league reconstruction shouldn't be the hostage of a crisis situation, it is still probably the best means of ensuring some degree of fairness by trying to honour as much of the promotion race as possible and negating the relegations.

Yep. There are no ideal scenarios here.

Whether you think calling now is fairer or trying told hold off on a decision to see if games can be played is fairer is subjective.

For me, calling now isn't fairer, it's just easier. If it becomes abundantly clear that these fixtures can never be completed within any kind of reasonable time frame, then that decision can always be made later. If we call the season now, that's it. It's nice and clean and nobody has to worry about the remaining games.

Football's "fair" in one sense and "unfair" in many others. The fairness of football should be that everyone competes on an even footing when it comes to rules and competition structure. The unfairness you're talking about exists anyway. A team could get a cash injection in January and buy the league. Celtic, Dundee Utd and Cover have essentially bought their leagues anyway. And the fact that Raith likely only have the second highest budget in L1 and if they were to falter, the team in second have the highest budget, doesn't exactly make it the exception to that rule. That type of "unfairness" always exists in football. Dishing out championships, promotions and relegations to clubs who didn't earn them is a type of unfairness that almost never happens in football and i think that's why some people have a fairly strong reaction against it.

[renton]

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Yep. There are no ideal scenarios here.

Whether you think calling now is fairer or trying told hold off on a decision to see if games can be played is fairer is subjective.

For me, calling now isn't fairer, it's just easier. If it becomes abundantly clear that these fixtures can never be completed within any kind of reasonable time frame, then that decision can always be made later. If we call the season now, that's it. It's nice and clean and nobody has to worry about the remaining games.

Football's "fair" in one sense and "unfair" in many others. The fairness of football should be that everyone competes on an even footing when it comes to rules and competition structure. The unfairness you're talking about exists anyway. A team could get a cash injection in January and buy the league. Celtic, Dundee Utd and Cover have essentially bought their leagues anyway. And the fact that Raith likely only have the second highest budget in L1 and if they were to falter, the team in second have the highest budget, doesn't exactly make it the exception to that rule. That type of "unfairness" always exists in football. Dishing out championships, promotions and relegations to clubs who didn't earn them is a type of unfairness that almost never happens in football and i think that's why some people have a fairly strong reaction against it.

I get that there is that capacity to overhaul squads in January (St Mirren in 2016 being a prime example). And your right clubs can overspend into admin as well. However, this would be a case of an overhaul forced on teams by an external force, rather than internal decision making. So to that degree it is a bit different. We had the windows, the managers have rolled all the dice they had, clubs have made their funding decisions for the season. To suddenly try and complete the season with God knows what type of squad (if there was a worst case scenario) opens up all kinds of uncertainty.

 

 

[Shadwell Dog]

15 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Yep. There are no ideal scenarios here.

Whether you think calling now is fairer or trying told hold off on a decision to see if games can be played is fairer is subjective.

For me, calling now isn't fairer, it's just easier. If it becomes abundantly clear that these fixtures can never be completed within any kind of reasonable time frame, then that decision can always be made later. If we call the season now, that's it. It's nice and clean and nobody has to worry about the remaining games.

Football's "fair" in one sense and "unfair" in many others. The fairness of football should be that everyone competes on an even footing when it comes to rules and competition structure. The unfairness you're talking about exists anyway. A team could get a cash injection in January and buy the league. Celtic, Dundee Utd and Cover have essentially bought their leagues anyway. And the fact that Raith likely only have the second highest budget in L1 and if they were to falter, the team in second have the highest budget, doesn't exactly make it the exception to that rule. That type of "unfairness" always exists in football. Dishing out championships, promotions and relegations to clubs who didn't earn them is a type of unfairness that almost never happens in football and i think that's why some people have a fairly strong reaction against it.

The big thing for me is if you make this decision now you give up any real chance of league reconstruction as the lower league clubs have lost their bargaining chip. Not often they have the upper hand but a yes vote now is throwing that away.