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Should Weed Be Legal?

Should weed in the UK be...  

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I'm not surprised you don't want to go into it, if you haven't yet realised your point of view is quite inappropriate you haven't been paying attention. No, you don't know a lot about this topic. If you did, you wouldn't think making heroin illegal is a viable and successful policy. You might have a lot of personal experience, but it doesn't matter a jot if what you are proposing is akin to the war on drugs. It would still be a failure of a policy, and would cause a lot of unnecessary harm.

I don't tend to use the alcohol and tobacco examples, all current drugs should be legalised. But not because alcohol and tobacco are. There are a myriad of other, superior, reasons why legalisation is an infinitely superior policy to prohibition.

Wait, are you suggesting that shops are more likely to sell illegal drugs to children than drug dealers? Do you not think that they might, I dunno, ID them or something :blink:

That's certainly one of the more unusual arguments, denying access to children is an argument for legalisation, not against. Of course, the proposal I put forward, as do most who support legalisation, is that currently illegal drugs - especially ones such as heroin - would initially be distributed via government dispensaries. Here the controls, and the prevention of children getting them, would be infinitely stronger than the current system of "that dealer is alright, lets hope he doesn't sell to my 13 year old".

That reason doesn't stack up to (any) scrutiny. Do any of your others?

No, you are being spectacularly beaten.

Making crystal meth more potent absolutely would reduce its harm than mixing with foreign substances. It would also only be sold in safe doses. The government making money really isn't the primary reason for legalisation. But your premise seems to rest on the fact that legalising crystal meth would dramatically increase usage - where is your evidence for this?

Of course, using crystal meth might well increase your healthcare needs. In which case, like smoking, you should be paying tax on your consumption. Smoking makes the government a lot more than it costs it. Crystal meth could easily do the same. Under the current system the users contribute nothing in tax for their purchases, and we spend billions locking them up to no avail.

Mudwillie suggested that legalising drugs, and having it distributed by the government, will increase the chances of children getting the drug? It makes no sense :blink:

Also, regarding the police, I'm sure they'd be absolutely delighted to go back to police work. At the moment so much of their time is consumed with a futile war on drugs. There is even a high profile organisation in the US, made up of law enforcement, completely against the futility of the war on drugs. It stops them doing their actual work, and forces them to arrest and imprison people whose only crime was consumption. The US prison system has been destroyed by the war on drugs.

Obviously, yes. It's right up there with a rapist saying "I'm so desperate to drug and rape someone, better wait till ecstasy is legal though".

Fucking hell - so, so much fail in every one of your maniacal posts.

I'll need to come back to annihilate you when I have more time.

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Fucking hell - so, so much fail in every one of your maniacal posts.

I'll need to come back to annihilate you when I have more time.

Yeah, that's definitely what's going to happen.

Maybe you should look up what happened to Tryfield or the other silent advocates of the war on drugs. They're silent for a reason.

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How can you tolerate it such a way? Have you even considered that this is even more dangerous than the current situation?

There's lots of things that can cause harm which the government could take away. The list I could conjure up would be ridiculous. I'll just start by mentioning cars, sharp objects ( I mean any ), electrical appliances and the likes. After all, they CAN cause harm, and we should be protected.

I don't think the government's only responsibility is to protect us, but it is one of them and an important one. It comes down to balancing the responsibilities of government on a case by case basis. Cars for example are dangerous, which counts against their legality, but the importance they have to a very high proportion of people, the fact they allow personal freedoms, how important they are to the economy, how important they are to the day to day running of the country etc all have to be taken into account.

The other big issue is how socially acceptable they are. A minority of people in the UK smoke cannabis regularly, so it being illegal does not make a huge difference to people therefore there is comparably little harm in keeping it illegal. Unlike electrical appliances, which are used by almost everyone and are important in the day to day living of the vast majority of people.

As for tolerating it, imprisoning people for possession does not seem the correct decision, nor does making it completely legal, so I think some sort of compromise is probably the best course of action to take. I'm happy to allow the government to make that decision for me, as that is what I elected them to do on my behalf.

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So the government has a responsibility to protect us, and does so by imprisoning us for the crime of consumption? :blink:

And the second prong of this protection is forcing us to consume unsafe products sold by drug dealers? :blink:

David Cameron thinks 5 years imprisonment is an appropriate punishment for cannabis possession, he thinks it helps protect the person. He thinks the prison sentence is really for their benefit. He is seriously suggesting an 18 year old David Cameron would have benefited from a 5 year prison sentence. He's a fucking hypocrite. How can you seriously suggest imprisoning drug users protects them?!

Also, whilst there is significant evidence decriminalisation decreases drug use, it shouldn't especially matter. Policy should minimise harm, not use. How can you possibly justify the opposite?

I don't think people should be imprisoned for possession of cannabis. Neither do I think it should be legal. I do think the government have a right to put us in prison for it, if, in their wisdom, they think that is the correct route to take. I disagree with them on it though.

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Legalise them all and tax the f*ck out of them.

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The point about importance of other things is a fair one to a point. However, we live in a world where drugs are hugely important to some people. To the point that people are willing to steal, maim or kill for them. Decriminalisation won't put a stop to all of that crime, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.


As for socially acceptable, I'm going to disregard anything said about that thanks to not giving a f**k.

Finally, on a compromise... how on earth do you achieve anything close to what you're looking for?

Edited by DomDom

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Caffeine is highly addictive, I take it you would make that illegal too?

It's just my condescending tone trumped yours, you thought you would get a lot of leverage with your "personal experience" stuff but what you believe goes explicitly against the evidence. And of course I'll point that out.

You haven't provided a single reason why drugs should remain illegal, or why the war on drugs is a viable policy. You claim that "highly addictive substances" should remain illegal, even though you accept this causes significant harm to users and this harm could be greatly mitigated with legalisation.

It seems you don't care about drug addicts, and think imprisoning them is the way forward. I can't express how much I disagree with this view point, the war on drugs actively harms a lot of people, and that's first and foremost why it should be attack so vigorously.

You think legalisation would lead to more kids having access to drugs, this is a totally inappropriate viewpoint.

People like you are the problem, the evidence changes but your view doesn't. I hope I never end up being that person, it's the same poisonous attitude that allowed slavery to exist for so long.

lol.

I have provided a reason why (addictive and harmful) drugs should remain illegal. At no point did I say the war on drugs is a viable policy. If they were more widely available, more people would have access to them.

Where exactly did I say that drug addicts should be imprisoned? This is what I think:

I think possession should mean a fine at most, but that dealers and importers should be very severely punished, much more so than currently. I think drug addicts should have access to clean places where they could take drugs (and clean needles etc) but stop short of actually having the government supply the substances or even decriminalising it. I believe that cannabis and ecstacy, amphetemines etc should be legalised, I'd go beyond decriminalisation, these are not particularly harmful substances imo

You could have found all of this out, and would have realised that I have just a slightly more moderate viewpoint than you on this topic, but that we share many views had you not leapt to a thousand conclusions about what I do and don't believe.

EDIT: Re the war on drugs, obviously a total failure and money sink. Much more should be put into educating children about the dangers and benefits of taking certain drugs and allow them to make informed decisions based on this information. Drugs are bad is pointless, because if they were all that bad, why would people take them. ONce they take their first draw of a joint and realise it doesn't kill them, they realise that drugs are bad is a lie, and discount all negatives they have heard about all drugs, which is not a good thing imo

Edited by madwullie

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It should be free on the NHS, everything else would be better, win win.

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It should be free on the NHS, everything else would be better, win win.

It would just seem like it. :P

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There is little doubt, in my mind that the worst effects of drugs on society are caused by dealers, legalisation would destroy them.

On crystal meth, I maybe wrong but was under the illusion that it's usage rocketing was caused by the war on drugs, in America , with the importation issues of cocaine and heroin, it became easier to start making drugs in the community's where they are to be sold.

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Regarding the point of weed becoming socially acceptable, I can't speak for the whole of Scotland, but i'd say cannabis is probably more socially accepted round here than smoking tobacco in all honesty. No one cares at all, and why should they?

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If crystal meth was legal I wouldn't buy it. I don't think that availability would lead to an increase in use. There are plenty of things I can buy just now but I don't.

Some people also talking about having no punishment for possessing small.amounts of cannabis but not legalizing it, someone suggested increasing punishments for dealers and suppliers. Wouldn't that just lead to the price rocketing and more organised crime in the supply chain? If you think possession deserves no punishment the sensible thing ti do would be legalise.

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I know all of this, I know about GPs taking heroin, I know heroin is an opiate, I know it's administered in hospitals, I know you "can" function as a perfectly normal member of society while using it regularly, I used to believe exactly what you believe. I no longer do, and whether or not you like that I don't particularly give a toss. Highly addictive substances should remain illegal imo.

We could have got involved in an interesting discussion about this but your condescending tone has put me right off.

It is the classic debating style of gaining the 'upper hand' and continuing to be a patronising and condescending pr*ck to anyone who doesn't share his opinion. What he fails to understand is that although he provides a good argument for the legalisation of drugs (although if i read 'safe administration' once more today I might tear my face off) not everyone has to agree with that.

It is like a devout Christian trying to convince you of their belief in God. I may be able to 'spectacularly beat' them in a debate concerning their beliefs, but I certainly wouldn't stoop to insulting their intelligence and try to bring them to my line of thinking - they are allowed to think that!

Supras seems to be the kind of guy who can't stand the idea of someone not agreeing with him, and likes to spend his day congratulating himself on beating everyone in debates. Not only do some people not agree with you Supras, but some people also find you a tedious intolerable bore.

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Whilst I disagree with Supras on many threads in Misc Football, he's bang on the money here. It's not a case of disagreeing with the opposite side of the argument, it's about proving it completely wrong, which he has done so here.

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Whilst I disagree with Supras on many threads in Misc Football, he's bang on the money here. It's not a case of disagreeing with the opposite side of the argument, it's about proving it completely wrong, which he has done so here.

As I said - he gained the upper hand very quickly and provides a good argument. The was he goes about doing so is what I am getting at. Personal experiences with drugs are just that - personal. He has no idea what the chap has been through whether he is playing the sob story card or not. Traumatic experiences can dramatically change views, and if someone has had death, serious illness or suchlike in their family through drugs, then they are perfectly entitled to argue against legalisation. That is whether they are right or wrong.

Edited by Shtuggie

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I don't understand the viewpoint that some drugs are too harmful or addictive to be legal. Tobacco and alcohol are two of the most harmful and addictive drugs going yet nobody would seriously advocate banning them. People aren't generally that stupid that they would go out and take tons of crystal meth just because it was legalised. Plus the numerous economic benefits associated with legalisation make it an obvious choice.

I think the media play a large part in sensationalist coverage of drugs which therefore leads to public fears about drugs.

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To those advocating blanket legalisation / decriminalisation of all drugs, what about the drug Krokodil - popular in Russia?

I'd post images of the aftermath, but not one of them is remotely SFW. It makes crystal meth look like Parma Violets.

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As I said - he gained the upper hand very quickly and provides a good argument. They was he goes about doing so is what I am getting at. Personal experiences with drugs are just that - personal. He has no idea what the chap has been through whether he is playing the sob story card or not. Traumatic experiences can dramatically change views, and if someone has had death, serious ilness or suchlike in their family through drugs, then they are perfectly entitled to argue against legalisation. That is whether they are right or wrong.

There are two points:

Firstly I'm a teacher so I'm wary of posting too much about controversial topics on the internet. Secondly, I know someone who died of a heroin overdose. It wasn't the fact that it was illegal that killed him, it was simply that he took too much of it. I'm not at all affected by it and we weren't particularly close (although a lot of people I also know were) but it did make me rethink my opinions on "harder" drugs. He wasn't some silly wee laddie led astray or anything he knew exactly what he was getting into.

I would preder if more people weren't able to be in a position where they try it enough times they become addicted. I totally agree that people will do it, and if that's their choice fair dos to them and that if they are goong to make this choice it should be an educated one.

Most of all though, I actually agree with almost everything he says (I just think it would be better if certain of the more harmful drugs remained illegal). It was impossible to get this piint across though as he was so desperate to be proven right and to win that he resorted to making things up about my opinions (I support the war on drugs, I want addicts to be locked up etc) which is pretty poor form imo.

Edited by madwullie

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To those advocating blanket legalisation / decriminalisation of all drugs, what about the drug Krokodil - popular in Russia?

I'd post images of the aftermath, but not one of them is remotely SFW. It makes crystal meth look like Parma Violets.

Similarly with crystal meth, it's a drug forced on consumers, by the war on drugs. It is used as a cheap substitute for heroin.

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drugs should be legal end of argument.

Adult choices- cleaned up and taxed to f**k.

As opposed to

Adult choices- going to tenement door at 12 am to score rat poison/diesel concoction off a psychopath

you can't stop folk taking drugs but you can stop them dying for it wake up britain kids are dying

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