Should Weed Be Legal?

[Dee Man]

Mmmm. So I guess the problems we have with crack and heroin are directly related to them being legal then. Oh wait...

Which countries have the biggest problems with drugs and criminality. In your own time, genius.

Right, this will be the 3657th and the last time I say this.

I am not talking about any other drugs. I am specifically talking about crystal meth, here, in the UK. The reference to effects in other countries was simply that, to show the impact it has on society. We do not have a problem with it here, got that? We already have a problem with heroin so that comparison is void. If you read back you will notice I have not once taken issue with Supras suggesting legalisation of any other drug. I am taking issue with him suggesting the government should basically introduce a drug onto the streets of this country. It is sheer fucking lunacy.

Perhaps if we already had a meth epidemic I wouldn't have jumped on him saying it should be legalised.

But he did, so I did.

[RandomGuy.]

About 4 months ago I literally just sent a group text to friends asking if anyone had any weed. Within 15 minutes I was chapping at my mates door with £70. It really is that easy

[mattydfc]

About 4 months ago I literally just sent a group text to friends asking if anyone had any weed. Within 15 minutes I was chapping at my mates door with £70. It really is that easy

Good for you kiddo.

[LinkinFighter]

About 4 months ago I literally just sent a group text to friends asking if anyone had any weed. Within 15 minutes I was chapping at my mates door with £70. It really is that easy

You should pm Dee Man that number.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Pie & Bovril mobile app

[uni]

It is simply absurd that weed is illegal. I cannot actually get into the mindset of someone who thinks it should be illegal, such a harmless drug on the grand scale of things.

[forehead7]

Yes that's right, because dealers are more than happy for their phone number to be given out to any random that decides they want to get off their tits tonight.

How exactly do you think dealers get more clients? Do you think they put out an ad in the Daily Record or the Yellow Pages?

[DEEJANGO]

Right, and what are the reasons for making crystal meth illegal? Be specific now.

Are you serious?

1. It is illegal now and for good reason.

2. The crime rate would increase.

3. Community's would suffer from the affects of crazed up people high on crystal meth.

4. If one person was murdered by someone high on crystal meth it would be one to many. ( and this would happen ) rape crimes would also increase due to the drug increasing your libido tenfold

5. It could and would destroy family's.

6. It would have zero positive affect on the country.

I would not want to risk any of these factors on our neighbourhoods,community's and country.

Can you tell me what positive affects making crystal meth legal would have on the country as a whole?

[Dee Man]

You should pm Dee Man that number.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Pie & Bovril mobile app

I'm good for weed. It's ice I'm struggling to get my hands on.

[Supras]

It's barely different to being legal, except it is illegal to have large quantities and if you do have a lot or look to supply a lot the government and police will lock you up for a very long time. They also spend and use resources actively seeking out these people to lock them up.

Seems quite surprising that the UN have no will nor mehanism to stop it yet neithrr of these countries have legalised it and say the UN wouldn't let them anyway.

It seems pretty clear to me that a reductiom in harm is not the driving force behind their legislation, but an effort to have less people consume the drug. I can't really see how this aim would tally with eventually making it completely legal. They wamt to restrict and control the supply. How would this be possible with a completely legal substance?

It's an incomplete policy, though, they could easily all but destroy organised crime by supplying the drugs themselves.

No country has full legalisation, that will change in the next decade. And of course the UN can't do anything about it, what can they do? Be extremely specific here. The moral zeitgeist has changed, and its swung well away from the war on drugs. Some people think decriminalisation is a valid answer, and it's a lot better than the war on drugs, but woefully incomplete and continues to unnecessarily put users at the risk of harm. As a policy, it makes very little sense.

Um, in what sense is decriminalisation aimed at reducing usage? I'm genuinely interested.

You have absolutely no doubt it will be fully legalised though so I guess that's good enough for me

Yeah, well, I know a lot more about this topic than you. And I know a lot more about what Portugal has implemented than the article you just read.

Right, this will be the 3657th and the last time I say this.

I am not talking about any other drugs. I am specifically talking about crystal meth, here, in the UK. The reference to effects in other countries was simply that, to show the impact it has on society. We do not have a problem with it here, got that? We already have a problem with heroin so that comparison is void. If you read back you will notice I have not once taken issue with Supras suggesting legalisation of any other drug. I am taking issue with him suggesting the government should basically introduce a drug onto the streets of this country. It is sheer fucking lunacy.

Perhaps if we already had a meth epidemic I wouldn't have jumped on him saying it should be legalised.

But he did, so I did.

Crystal meth already exists in this country, so they absolutely aren't introducing it at all. The only issue is that very few people want it, now or when its legalised, so it has no real market. Even if it was legalised all the indications mean that pretty much nobody would buy it.

Either way, you have yet to provide any reason whatsoever as to why all drugs would be legalised, but Crystal Meth kept illegal? Who, precisely, would benefit from such a system?

[Supras]

Are you serious?

1. It is illegal now and for good reason.

I have a good laugh at reason number 1. "It's illegal cause it's illegal. And for good reason"

2. The crime rate would increase.

Um, how? Drug offences contribute greatly to crime rates, legalisation or decriminalisation would significantly reduce crime rates. As would prison incarcerations. So this point is explicitly counter factual.

3. Community's would suffer from the affects of crazed up people high on crystal meth.

Except this currently happens, and it is currently illegal. The negative effects of the drug could, very easily, be mitigated by legalisation. As I've already explained in depth.

[Supras]

4. If one person was murdered by someone high on crystal meth it would be one to many. ( and this would happen ) rape crimes would also increase due to the drug increasing your libido tenfold

And making crystal meth illegal changes any of this? Were it legal people would consume it in monitored conditions, where they can't rape or kill anyway. Drug fueled crimes would reduce dramatically in legalisation. This point is, yet another, slam dunk for me. In what's emerging as a pattern.

5. It could and would destroy family's.

You've made a similar point several times, except all the negative aspects of crystal meth consumption you have discussed all happen whilst the drug is illegal. If making drugs illegal meant zero consumption you might have a point, but it doesn't and you don't.

6. It would have zero positive affect on the country.

I would not want to risk any of these factors on our neighbourhoods,community's and country.

Can you tell me what positive affects making crystal meth legal would have on the country as a whole?

Even on a basic economic level legalising drugs would bring in huge amounts of tax revenues. In addition to the many other factors I've discussed in depth on this thread.

The positive effects are, predominantly in my opinion, significantly reducing the harm to drug users. There is also an element of greatly reducing the influence of criminal gangs. Drug legalisation would bring a whole raft of benefits to Society, many of which have already been discussed.

[Dee Man]

It's an incomplete policy, though, they could easily all but destroy organised crime by supplying the drugs themselves.

No country has full legalisation, that will change in the next decade. And of course the UN can't do anything about it, what can they do? Be extremely specific here. The moral zeitgeist has changed, and its swung well away from the war on drugs. Some people think decriminalisation is a valid answer, and it's a lot better than the war on drugs, but woefully incomplete and continues to unnecessarily put users at the risk of harm. As a policy, it makes very little sense.

Um, in what sense is decriminalisation aimed at reducing usage? I'm genuinely interested.

Yeah, well, I know a lot more about this topic than you. And I know a lot more about what Portugal has implemented than the article you just read.

Crystal meth already exists in this country, so they absolutely aren't introducing it at all. The only issue is that very few people want it, now or when its legalised, so it has no real market. Even if it was legalised all the indications mean that pretty much nobody would buy it.

Please provide evidence that no-one would want it if it's legalised.

If it was legal, I would be waiting for the chemists to open first thing tomorrow morning to buy as much as I could, then go home and rub my face up and down an artex wall before wiping out my family and neighbours as it would be 10 times more fun than your repetitive, tedious, question avoiding, selective quoting pish.

[Dee Man]

And making crystal meth illegal changes any of this? Were it legal people would consume it in monitored conditions, where they can't rape or kill anyway. Drug fueled crimes would reduce dramatically in legalisation. This point is, yet another, slam dunk for me. In what's emerging as a pattern.

This is exactly the question you avoided earlier.

The meth is consumed in monitored conditions. Awesome. Are they then monitored for the 12+ hour high?

[madwullie]

I've got no interest in being very specific about what the un can and can't do. I'm happy to take the head of portugal's anti-drugs program's word that they "would have gotten into trouble with the un" if they had blanket legalisation. I would have thought he'd have a pretty good grip of the ins and outs of the situation. Happy for it to be shown that he's talking shit though.

[DEEJANGO]

And making crystal meth illegal changes any of this? Were it legal people would consume it in monitored conditions, where they can't rape or kill anyway. Drug fueled crimes would reduce dramatically in legalisation. This point is, yet another, slam dunk for me. In what's emerging as a pattern.

You've made a similar point several times, except all the negative aspects of crystal meth consumption you have discussed all happen whilst the drug is illegal. If making drugs illegal meant zero consumption you might have a point, but it doesn't and you don't.

Even on a basic economic level legalising drugs would bring in huge amounts of tax revenues. In addition to the many other factors I've discussed in depth on this thread.

The positive effects are, predominantly in my opinion, significantly reducing the harm to drug users. There is also an element of greatly reducing the influence of criminal gangs. Drug legalisation would bring a whole raft of benefits to Society, many of which have already been discussed.

The NHS bill would massively out weigh the tax revenues with a drug like crystal meth. Slam dunk me.

Also users would increase from the younger generation as making it legal is basically the government endorsing it.

You must know you are wrong on this crystal meth one and know it will never happen.

Weeds a different story all together but crystal meth come on. Your argument is flawed and TBF irrelevant.

[DEEJANGO]

[DEEJANGO]

lol wut

Great input once again Patrick.

[Shtuggie]

Really? Well, the side who are in favour of the war on drugs don't seem to be bending anything. Statistics are totally against their point of view, and they know it.

Um, what are you talking about? Studies have demonstrated that legalising heroin reduces harm and use. What is your point again?

The actual number of people being harmed, i.e. legalisation significantly reduces the harm to the end user. It's not the latter, all users benefit from legalisation.

You haven't exposed anything, and are still spelling hypocrisy wrong. It's not the ratio, and I really can't explain it in any more depth, all heroin users benefit from legalisation. The drug is much safer to consume, and fatalities fall to zero.

I don't exactly know what you are talking about, or what case you are arguing. Can you articulate it a bit more clearly? With less hypothetical?

OK - I will happily ride the bus to the next stop. Can you prove that the NUMBER of fatalities would decrease even with increased usage due to safe administration etc?

By proof I mean directing me towards some of your research or a URL with articles containing validated statistics from these instances. What I don't mean by proof is you telling me that studies have been shown to reduce harm and use.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Shtuggie

[Pink Freud]

OK - I will happily ride the bus to the next stop. Can you prove that the NUMBER of fatalities would decrease even with increased usage due to safe administration etc?

By proof I mean directing me towards some of your research or a URL with articles validated statistics from these instances. What I don't mean by proof is you telling me that studies have been shown to reduce harm and use.

There are links on this thread. Alternatively, google Italy, Spain andPortugal drug policies.

[madwullie]

I just checked out Portugal's drug policy and there's been a rise in drug deaths recently (to levels similar to what they were before decriminalisation) and only among the young have usage rates declined. Wikipedia mind you