Ad Lib Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Jeez, am I going to have to take this step by step? 1.Why? Because death isn't pleasant and isn't something to mock. Humans are complex emotional beings and the loss of those faculties isn't something that is tasteful to vindictively hold parties about. The side that says we shouldn't take any pleasure in the death of a woman who seemed to try her best to destroy Scotland forever. If by "take pleasure" you mean openly celebrate, hold parties in George Square about, and post "ding dong the witch is dead", then absolutely I'm on the side that says you shouldn't "take pleasure" out of the death of anyone. Even if they're a monster. If by "take pleasure" you mean "not mourn" up to a passing remark along the lines of "good riddance", I'd probably have no objections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Would it be fair to say that the celebrations that take place on the 5th of November are glorifying death? Depends really. If you're just having a firework display because you like fireworks and "it's tradition" to do so on 5th November, then no. If you are burning a Guy, then I'd say it is a celebration and is disrespectful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Because death isn't pleasant and isn't something to mock. Humans are complex emotional beings and the loss of those faculties isn't something that is tasteful to vindictively hold parties about. Yep, death is sad. 2. Why isn't the loss of Chavez's faculties sad to you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Yep, death is sad. 2. Why isn't the loss of Chavez's faculties sad to you? Because I don't know him. The same reason Thatcher losing hers wasn't "sad" to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Incidentally, I made a damn good Reynard joke there, far, far better than any of those tired and lazy "shed" efforts. Someone better fucking appreciate it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Incidentally, I made a damn good Reynard joke there, far, far better than any of those tired and lazy "shed" efforts. Someone better fucking appreciate it! *shrugs* presumed it was a typo. Not funny. Must try harder. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 *shrugs* presumed it was a typo. Not funny. Must try harder. That whole attack on you was so I could slip that joke in there. Philistines, the lot of you. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Typo IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Typo IMO.This.ETA: Sodje: when's part 3? I'm getting bored. Edited April 10, 2013 by Ad Lib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 *shrugs* presumed it was a typo. Not funny. Must try harder.That whole attack on you was so I could slip that joke in there. Philistines, the lot of you. I reckoned it was a typo too. Soz.And I think Ad Lib is getting a very raw deal here. There are plenty of people reacting to Thatcher's death in the way he did to Chavez, Glenda Jackson in parliament today being one, who haven't metaphorically taken a dump on her grave. For what it's worth, I immediately posted a link of Mogwai on Facebook. But I think Ad Lib is being treated really unfairly on this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Because I don't know him. The same reason Thatcher losing hers wasn't "sad" to me. One got a long winded Lib Demish empty worded eulogy reaction. The other one got a shrug, despite you being indifferent to both. Whether you agreed or disagreed with her politics, there's no question that Thatcher presided over one of the most difficult periods of British peacetime history. Structural economic chaos of the '70s, the death of the post-war consensus beginning, let's remember, *before* she took office, when Callaghan committed Labour to monetary controls, and increased global pressures: the plight of the most vulnerable cannot be said to be said to be solely of her making, independently of these conditions. If the UK was to avoid terminal national decline, that old system needed wiped out. It took its causalties, and no government is perfect. Many things could and should have been done differently. That much is true. But you need only look at the modern world and to see that even the likes of China explicitly acknowledge the huge creative and innovative benefits of participating in a market in which you are competitive. Such a system, of a property owning democracy, can and does empower those across the spectrum to pass on a better legacy than they received, even if it has its blind spots. Andrew Marr said a few years ago that we were, like it or not, rebel or not, the children of Margaret Thatcher. He was right. But we're not children any more. All of the children of Margaret Thatcher are now adults. Let's stop being the rebellious teenagers and use her passing as an opportunity to take responsibility for our own path in politics. We don't have to define ourselves as for or against her to take the right decisions for the 21st century. We live in a time where it is not just the UK that is in decline, but the traditional global dominance of Europe itself. We have to take control of our own political future and we do that best not by looking back, but by looking forward to the potential of a better tomorrow. ^ Disingenious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) One got a long winded Lib Demish empty worded eulogy reaction. The other one got a shrug, despite you being indifferent to both. ^ Disingenious. I am indifferent to the fact that she died. All I've said there is:a) Her premiership was at a difficult time in British politics b) That she got some things right c) That she got other things wrong d) That we need to stop defining our politics on this island as "for" or "against" her e) We need to think for ourselves and come up with our own ideas and terms of political engagement instead of having the argument of the 1980s in our own political conditions (this was SUPPOSED to be a hint that we should stop talking about her and have a more considered debate about how to chart our own future, particularly with an opportunity like Scottish independence). None of these points pass any remark on whether I feel negatively or positively about her death. I am indifferent about her death. I passed several critical remarks in relation to Chavez because that thread had become sycophantically in favour of someone who was ultimately quite an oppressive leader. I felt that criticism needed communicated, but at no point did I feel the need to say I was glad he was dead, that I would celebrate his death, that I would dance on his grave or that I would hold a "Chavez is dead" party. Thatcher's faults have been quite comprehensively rehearsed by other posters on this thread and I felt no need to repeat them. If you'd like me to, I'll happily draw up a list. Edited April 11, 2013 by Ad Lib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Sergio Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Incidentally, I made a damn good Reynard joke there, far, far better than any of those tired and lazy "shed" efforts. Someone better fucking appreciate it! What is the actual full story behind Reynard and his shed anyway, xbl? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Typo IMO. *shrugs* presumed it was a typo. Not funny. Must try harder. I reckoned it was a typo too. Soz. And I think Ad Lib is getting a very raw deal here. There are plenty of people reacting to Thatcher's death in the way he did to Chavez, Glenda Jackson in parliament today being one, who haven't metaphorically taken a dump on her grave. For what it's worth, I immediately posted a link of Mogwai on Facebook. But I think Ad Lib is being treated really unfairly on this one. You lot deserve those repetitive and tired smug faces and constant repetitions of scrambling for relevance etc. Genuine moments of cleverness clearly pass you mortals by. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 What is the actual full story behind Reynard and his shed anyway, xbl? I'm not sure if I'm being whooshed here, but Reynard (who I've never met) is self-employed as a picture and painting framer / hanger (whatever they're called) and has a workshop in his garden, so the joke is that he lives in a shed. I've no idea what he's like in person but his posts seem to indicate that he's maybe come into a bit of money in his life, possibly through inheritance, and so I don't really know if he does this job for a 'living', or if he doesn't need the cash and just does it because he enjoys it. Either way it's something a bit different. I don't agree with the man's politics (but he knows his stuff about fitness) and I'm damn sure I'd rather work from a shed in my garden than in some shitty call centre or office. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I have to say, I don't think there's anything contradictory in Ad Lib's posts, to be honest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 What is the actual full story behind Reynard and his shed anyway, xbl? I don't actually ever mock Reynard's occupation. It sounds ace! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Typo IMO. *shrugs* presumed it was a typo. Not funny. Must try harder. I reckoned it was a typo too. Soz. And I think Ad Lib is getting a very raw deal here. There are plenty of people reacting to Thatcher's death in the way he did to Chavez, Glenda Jackson in parliament today being one, who haven't metaphorically taken a dump on her grave. For what it's worth, I immediately posted a link of Mogwai on Facebook. But I think Ad Lib is being treated really unfairly on this one. You lot deserve those repetitive and tired smug faces and constant repetitions of scrambling for relevance etc. Genuine moments of cleverness clearly pass you mortals by. I can taste your rancour. To me, it's like the finest ambrosia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I have to say, I don't think there's anything contradictory in Ad Lib's posts, to be honest. I don't actually disagree with his view on people having street parties but the importance of death's innate sadness and the preciousness of the human faculty seems to count when he's practising writing up what his favourite political party have just been on TV saying but not for the next bloke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I don't actually disagree with his view on people having street parties but the importance of death's innate sadness and the preciousness of the human faculty seems to count when he's practising writing up what his favourite political party have just been on TV saying but not for the next bloke. Sadness is not something I have relied upon as justification for not being gratuitously offensive about people dying. Respect for the recently dead is not diminished by stating indifference to the death of Hugo Chavez and saying that he was an oppressor, and that his regime still is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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