Thatcher deid

[Ad Lib]

You see this is the kind of idea that sickens me! The notion that you have to create suffering, and people are then incentivised to work by having to alleviate their own suffering.

Human beings are capable of being incentivised to invent, create, innovate, achieve, etc without there having to be a fucking dollar in it! And to reduce any form of human achievement, or any example of civilisation or society, as being motivated simply by economic value is a brutal indictment on the human condition.

There aren't that many of us that require to be slaves in order to be productive you know!

Capitalism doesn't "create" suffering. The default system of production and consumption is subsistence or starvation. Capitalism AND industrialised socialism suggests that we can be more ambitious than that, and use a co-ordinated system of preferences in order to increase the choices and opportunities available to people. The respect in which they disagree is that socialism thinks these preferences are generally better served by a process of central planning, whilst capitalism says that individuals expressing their own preferences will create a system that brings greater satisfaction of desires.

Literally no one is suggesting that material gain is the only motivation of individuals to work hard and to try to better themselves. But it's a bloody massive incentive across the species as a whole precisely because we form communities and to prevent the emergence of incentives not to produce but simply to consume.

It's utterly ridiculous that capitalism is caricatured this way by people on the left. At no point does anyone but the most utterly fundamentalist of anarcho-capitalist thought suggest that everything is reduced to homo economicus. Thatcher, just for example, argued ardently that scientific research and funding shouldn't simply follow the most immediately economically advantageous projects, such is the nature of spontaneous discovery (see her speech to the RSC in the late 80s). What she said was that it should follow the most driven people and the projects that would most inspire.

[Reynard]

If the original incredible sulk were still alive, he and Red Ken would be having a real old natter about how awful she was.

Very true!

[Reynard]

I think there's a wee bit more to it than that.

The Marxist fanny bit covers everything else.

[ForeverSinging]

the subtext of this is that she abolished the GLC, rED Ken has been in a thirty year sulk about it. The sad old Marxist fanny.

It doesn't matter what's motivated him to say these things if what he says is correct

[Daviehaybhoy]

I think, more in the way of embarrassing those people who were dancing the streets and generally behaving in the most despicable way possible, there should be a minute's silence before all sporting events on Saturday

[Reynard]

It doesn't matter what's motivated him to say these things if what he says is correct

I suppose so.

If he was correct. Which he never has been on anything .

[Paulo Sergio]

I think, more in the way of embarrassing those people who were dancing the streets and generally behaving in the most despicable way possible, there should be a minute's silence before all sporting events on Saturday

I'd love to see one at Hampden on Sunday, Seamus.

[Dee Man]

I think, more in the way of embarrassing those people who were dancing the streets and generally behaving in the most despicable way possible, there should be a minute's silence before all sporting events on Saturday

Why did you 'resign' then come back?

[Gaz]

There isn't a football match in Britain that would observe a minute's silence for Thatcher. Unless Chelsea v Linfield was astonishingly slotted into the calendar

[The OP]

There isn't a football match in Britain that would observe a minute's silence for Thatcher. Unless Chelsea v Linfield was astonishingly slotted into the calendar

The other member of the Axis of Evil are playing Linfield tonight, as it happens. And I don't mean Hamburg (traditionally an Axis only has 3 members, so they only qualify for the rectangle of hunnery)

[Granny Danger]

The one thing this thread illustrates for me is that as a society we have not moved forward much. Self interest stills seems to dominate large parts of our society, usually (thinly) disguised as pragmatism.

From the undisguised selfishness of Reynard ("there is no such thing as society....." describes his ethos perfectly); through Ad Lib, (a lecturing little cretin who has been protected all his life yet feels he has the right to lecture us); to Tryfield, a decent, nice guy who I had the pleasure of meeting who, nonetheless, propagates the right wing ideology with his "well I just work my way through it" approach that fails to offer the criticism that the Thatcher years deserve.

I am an unapologetic idealist. If we can't achieve a decent, caring society in my lifetime hopefully it may happen during the lifetime of my children or grandchild.

[Mr Rational]

I am an unapologetic idealist. If we can't achieve a decent, caring society in my lifetime hopefully it may happen during the lifetime of my children or grandchild.

You may say that you're a dreamer, but you're, not the only one...

[Daviehaybhoy]

The one thing this thread illustrates for me is that as a society we have not moved forward much. Self interest stills seems to dominate large parts of our society, usually (thinly) disguised as pragmatism.

From the undisguised selfishness of Reynard ("there is no such thing as society....." describes his ethos perfectly); through Ad Lib, (a lecturing little cretin who has been protected all his life yet feels he has the right to lecture us); to Tryfield, a decent, nice guy who I had the pleasure of meeting who, nonetheless, propagates the right wing ideology with his "well I just work my way through it" approach that fails to offer the criticism that the Thatcher years deserve.

I am an unapologetic idealist. If we can't achieve a decent, caring society in my lifetime hopefully it may happen during the lifetime of my children or grandchild.

"Left wing missionary". Give me a break mate.

A society that fails to recognize God is a disordered one and everything that I've read from the leftie progressive liberal crowd reeks of contradiction. Also, like a lot of other posters on here you've been brainwashed by a progressive, leftie media which promotes the rights of tiny minorities and in so doing undermines any moral order for the majority. That's another irony of course which is that at the core of the liberal agenda is self interest but you're not going to understand that.

[Reynard]

The one thing this thread illustrates for me is that as a society we have not moved forward much. Self interest stills seems to dominate large parts of our society, usually (thinly) disguised as pragmatism.

From the undisguised selfishness of Reynard ("there is no such thing as society....." describes his ethos perfectly); through Ad Lib, (a lecturing little cretin who has been protected all his life yet feels he has the right to lecture us); to Tryfield, a decent, nice guy who I had the pleasure of meeting who, nonetheless, propagates the right wing ideology with his "well I just work my way through it" approach that fails to offer the criticism that the Thatcher years deserve.

I am an unapologetic idealist. If we can't achieve a decent, caring society in my lifetime hopefully it may happen during the lifetime of my children or grandchild.

I'm not remotely selfish. You know absolutely nothing about me whatsoever to be able to make this statement.

[pub car king]

This funeral is going to be interesting even if no one gets close enough to disrupt the actual event there will likely be protests or gatherings elsewhere.

[Daviehaybhoy]

Funny that we get all this caring society p**h from all these leftie liberals and then when it comes to allow people the right to mourn the passing of someone who they admired, they're dancing in the streets and making numpties out of themselves on social media.

"Caring society where everyone's rights are respected". Aye that'll be right

[vikingTON]

0/10, seamus.

[Mr Rational]

Funny that we get all this caring society p**h from all these leftie liberals and then when it comes to allow people the right to mourn the passing of someone who they admired, they're dancing in the streets and making numpties out of themselves on social media.

"Caring society where everyone's rights are respected". Aye that'll be right

[Daviehaybhoy]

fishy fishy.png

You have your opinions and I'll retain my standards ok? Thanks

[Reynard]

Funny that we get all this caring society p**h from all these leftie liberals and then when it comes to allow people the right to mourn the passing of someone who they admired, they're dancing in the streets and making numpties out of themselves on social media.

"Caring society where everyone's rights are respected". Aye that'll be right

The left showed themselves up for exactly the sort of vile scum they actually are.

I cant wait to give that old terrorist Nelson Mandela a huge amount of abuse when he snuffs it.

WTF did he actually do anyway? Did f**k all for 27 years, got released, divorced his wife who had spent all that time getting folk to stick car tyres round each others necks before setting them on fire, then presiding over South Africas descent into anarchy. Then he retired. Fantastic...